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Second Turnback This Week Due to Unruly Pax

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  • #61
    And we digress..

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    • #62
      Originally posted by 3WE View Post

      Here’s some math for you: 6% of a billion is a big ass number.
      No, it doesn't work that way. It doesn't mean that 6% of people properly wearing N94 masks in public will get infected. If that were true, there would be some massive lawsuits in the trade industries that rely on these. If a billion people properly wore proper masks in public, there would not be a pandemic.

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      • #63
        ok, so now at least we know where on the spectrum evan and gabe are. both are right and the rest of the world is wrong, especially me and 3bs.

        and this is EXACTLY why the world, especially the US is so effed right now. politics took over. skewed numbers are being extrapolated by talking head experts everywhere and they all KNOW the answers and no one else does. every quack has found his way out from under their rock and now has a platform on youtube...uh, well, only if he os going to talk about how everyone is going to DIE from covid, cuz anything less than that and their videos get yanked.

        gabe, evan, y'all go on with your lives the way you choose to. just let everyone else make their choice as well.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

          Seriously? Maye that's because...
          you miss the point entirely. if i wanted to return from, say ghana, in middle of an ebola outbreak, the US would ask me for absolutely nothing but my passport. all while according to the never wrong CDC, "The incubation period for Ebola, from exposure to when signs or symptoms appear, can be anywhere from 2 to 21 days. The average is 8 to 10 days." HOLY SH! i could be prancing around carrying ebola in my blood for 21 days before becoming symptomatic, spit and cough over 100's of people, donate blood, etc etc, and well, welcome to america ebola. yet, some stupid effin sars virus that has been circulating freely and rampantly throughout the US for two effin years causes enough fear in the brain trust at the cdc to bar me from entering without a test? seriously? just plain BULLSHIT and y'all know it.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Evan View Post

            No, it doesn't work that way. It doesn't mean that 6% of people properly wearing N94 masks in public will get infected. If that were true, there would be some massive lawsuits in the trade industries that rely on these. If a billion people properly wore proper masks in public, there would not be a pandemic.
            you dont know what you're talking about. no company anywhere that manufactures PARTICULATE MASKS such as n95 kn95 etc, which are not and never were intended or designed to prevent pathogens from being inhaled or exhaled, has ever or would ever guarantee their functioning.

            go do some obssessive research on it.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Evan View Post

              No, it doesn't work that way. It doesn't mean that 6% of people properly wearing N94 masks in public will get infected.
              I said no such thing…I was talking about the gray area of huge numbers of pathogens where an extremely low percentage results in a new infection.

              It’s kind of universal AND loaded with gray areas. Name your favorite disease, the numbers game will emerge, constants may vary.

              It’s kind of like an engineer designing an awesome jet engine compressor, but after several thousand units and a billion hours it craps out and kills someone.

              I’m sure your bubble has a great filtration system.
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by 3WE View Post

                Omicron is much more infectious…

                -The experts say so
                -The progress greatly exceeds the prior peaks, with lots of records.

                -CoVid original in early 2020 was March - July
                -CoVid original fall outbreak, 2020- Months
                -Vaccines!
                -Delta came and went- and it seems vaccines were somewhat effective at stopping it.
                -Omicron mere weeks and it’s set records and peaked. Vaccines rather ineffective at stopping it.

                Yeah, each run was different in terms of masking and isolation and compliance and exposure, but it looks crazy virulent and they say it’s crazy virulent…
                This has nothing to do with my previous reply. Did you see the part that I quoted from you?
                Let me paraphrase it here:
                3we: Omicron spreading like crazy in spite of a lot of pretty decent protocols
                Gabe: What lot of pretty decent protocols?

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                  gabe, evan, y'all go on with your lives the way you choose to. just let everyone else make their choice as well.
                  I bet you’ve ridden a bicycle…
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                    ok, so now at least we know where on the spectrum evan and gabe are. both are right and the rest of the world is wrong, especially me and 3bs.

                    and this is EXACTLY why the world, especially the US is so effed right now. politics took over. skewed numbers are being extrapolated by talking head experts everywhere and they all KNOW the answers and no one else does. every quack has found his way out from under their rock and now has a platform on youtube...uh, well, only if he os going to talk about how everyone is going to DIE from covid, cuz anything less than that and their videos get yanked.

                    gabe, evan, y'all go on with your lives the way you choose to. just let everyone else make their choice as well.
                    I tend to agree, regrettably I might add. I don't think it makes EITHER side look good that one can make a pretty good guess about who someone voted for based on whether or not they're wearing a mask. It tells me that nobody gives a crap about the Science (TM), it's all about taking a position as diametrically opposite to the other side as possible. It could have just as easily been right wingers pro masks and left wingers against...

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by TeeVee View Post

                      you dont know what you're talking about. no company anywhere that manufactures PARTICULATE MASKS such as n95 kn95 etc, which are not and never were intended or designed to prevent pathogens from being inhaled or exhaled, has ever or would ever guarantee their functioning.

                      go do some obssessive research on it.
                      I am sorry, but N95, KN95, N100, P100, etc are TECHNICAL STANDRS, not just model names.
                      The masks that have these markings are certified by independent accredited laboratories (not the manufacturer) to meet these technical standards.
                      The technical standards for all the ones that end in 95 is that they must retain at least 95% of the particle size that has greatest penetration through that mask. Any other particle size will have less penetration than that. That means that NOTHIG, not football and not a spore of fungi (which is smaller than the smallest microdroplet of mist that can contain 1 particle of virus), will go through that mask at a rate greater than 5%. The effect breaks down only when you get at molecular sizes (that is why gases can flow through the mask), but even the tiniest virus is millions of molecules big.

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

                        This has nothing to do with my previous reply. Did you see the part that I quoted from you?
                        Let me paraphrase it here:
                        3we: Omicron spreading like crazy in spite of a lot of pretty decent protocols
                        Gabe: What lot of pretty decent protocols?
                        A lot of mask mandates, for one. Omicron spread just fine in New Yark, AND Rush Limbaugh’s home town AND El Paso. Yeah, the red states are a bit freedom loving and blue states more cautious. I’m sure you can show me statistical differences, BUT, ALL THREE PLACES have widespread infection.

                        You inferred that Omicron spread because the El Paso WalMart was full of improvisational cowboy monkey maskless shoppers. Maybe you didn’t mean to, but it’s kind of what you said.

                        Omicron spread widely in New Yark AND El Paso.
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post

                          I tend to agree, regrettably I might add. I don't think it makes EITHER side look good that one can make a pretty good guess about who someone voted for based on whether or not they're wearing a mask. It tells me that nobody gives a crap about the Science (TM), it's all about taking a position as diametrically opposite to the other side as possible. It could have just as easily been right wingers pro masks and left wingers against...
                          Concur.

                          In fact, masks probably reduce (gray area) transmission AND, IMO, may be preferred to lockdowns.

                          But, this shirt ain’t exact, and [Insert an obscure ATL deity]-forbid someone question things…
                          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                            You inferred that Omicron spread because the El Paso WalMart was full of improvisational cowboy monkey maskless shoppers. Maybe you didn’t mean to, but it’s kind of what you said.
                            I disagree. What I inferred is that Omicron is spreading like crazy not_in_spite of of a lot of pretty decent protocols.

                            And I didn't say it then but I say it now: The main reason why it is spreading like crazy is because Omicron is much more contagious and virulent than Delta in the sense that it takes a much smaller number of virus particles to infect the average person. That is why non-rated masks that were more or less effective with previous variants are much less effective with Omicron.

                            Not having that lot of pretty decent protocols in place doesn't help slow down the spread. I don't know how much having them in place would help, but it would help some.

                            But to be honest, I am not super concerned now. Omicron is resulting much less aggressive on the average person than the previous variants, ESPECIALLY if you are fully vaccinated and boosted. You will still get it, you can still get sick but it tends to be very mild even in old people and other risk groups even if you are not vaccinated and even much more if you are. Myself and all my loved ones (both family and friends) are fully vaccinated so the risk for us is very minimal. While the number of positive cases per week has skyrocketed by 4 times as many cases per week as the previous worst moment in the pandemic, the number of deaths is about 1/2 of that of the worse moment. Meaning that the fatality rate is about 1 order of magnitude less now than in the worst moment of the pandemic, and in the vaccinated people is even much more since most of the deaths are in non-fully-vaccinated people (despite the fact that they are not the majority of the population), and I am starting to lose my compassion for them. They utilize more resources and spread the virus more than the vaccinated ones, so it's like the vaccinated are subsidizing the unvaccinated who in turn put the vaccinated at more risk.

                            My main concern right now is that the disruption that is not being caused by some dose of restrictive measures (that are not in place) is being caused by the sheer amount of people that is sick. In the last 3 weeks I had a flight cancelled, a doctor appointment rescheduled, an appointment in the DMV to obtain the learner's permit for one of my children cancelled altogether, a huge backlog growth and delivery delays in my factory, and 2 days of the school of one of my kids closed, due to insufficient number of people to operate the business due to COIVD. While it didn't impact me, I've also heard of fire stations and police stations being unmanned and closing one station to consolidate resources in another. I am not sure how or by how much, but this surely is having some economic, social and health impact, possibly even having caused some deaths indirectly.

                            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                              ok, so now at least we know where on the spectrum evan and gabe are. both are right and the rest of the world is wrong, especially me and 3bs.

                              and this is EXACTLY why the world, especially the US is so effed right now. politics took over. skewed numbers are being extrapolated by talking head experts everywhere and they all KNOW the answers and no one else does. every quack has found his way out from under their rock and now has a platform on youtube...uh, well, only if he os going to talk about how everyone is going to DIE from covid, cuz anything less than that and their videos get yanked.
                              Actually, I agree. I will try to come back to a more civilized tone, I suggest that you do the same.

                              gabe, evan, y'all go on with your lives the way you choose to. just let everyone else make their choice as well.
                              Ok, I will go on with my life by installing a manure plant right next to your house while listening to music all night at max volume. You can choose not to do it.

                              People choosing not wearing a mask and not getting the shot are choosing to put the life of others at risk.

                              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post

                                I tend to agree, regrettably I might add. I don't think it makes EITHER side look good that one can make a pretty good guess about who someone voted for based on whether or not they're wearing a mask. It tells me that nobody gives a crap about the Science (TM), it's all about taking a position as diametrically opposite to the other side as possible. It could have just as easily been right wingers pro masks and left wingers against...
                                It's actually both right and left wingers, the wing tips, that are most opposed to following science (tm). Both are vulnerable to all the pseudo-science and conspiracy nonsense and stalwart individualism that is going around. But those of us who have respect and deference for science (see Gabe's post below) are not doing so for political reasons. We're doing so for intellectual reasons. So spare us the false equivalence.

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