Light plane crashes

[TeeVee]

so, not to speak poorly of the deceased, it seems that he either lacked skill/experience or perhaps was overwhelmed by the circumstances. that being said, i, with my immense experience piloting all sorts of aircraft, would have demanded a straight in approach (maybe allowing for a circle or two to bleed off altitude) to the nearest runway, country road, grassy field or whatever.

[Gabriel]

so, not to speak poorly of the deceased, it seems that he either lacked skill/experience or perhaps was overwhelmed by the circumstances. that being said, i, with my immense experience piloting all sorts of aircraft, would have demanded a straight in approach (maybe allowing for a circle or two to bleed off altitude) to the nearest runway, country road, grassy field or whatever.

And, for what it's worth, I agree.

And again, this pilot may have not been super skillful or may have been overwhelmed, but even in the best circumstances, with a 300ft ceiling, the odds are slim.

[Evan]

Only if you pull back to prevent the nose from going down instead of letting the nose go down, gain airspeed and then pull back, which is what I did all the time when making tight base-to-final turns.

Central to this error is the assumption that the engine has failed and he is focused on preserving as much altitude as possible while considering the current 1G stall speed but not the 1.2G (or whatever) stall speed needed for the maneuver. So he would pull in the turn with those two things in mind.

Also, ATC does inform him that he has overshot the runway CL shortly before he drops off radar.

[Gabriel]

You win. Here you go again. Let's wait for the final report.

[3WE]

Central to this error is the assumption that the engine has failed and he is focused on preserving as much altitude as possible while considering the current 1G stall speed but not the 1.2G (or whatever) stall speed needed for the maneuver. So he would pull in the turn with those two things in mind.

Also, ATC does inform him that he has overshot the runway CL shortly before he drops off radar.

You might want to check the 02 refresh rate of the sterile bubble.

[Evan]

You might want to check the 02 refresh rate of the sterile bubble.

Meanwhile, I can’t help noticing your refresh rate on insult material is getting critically low.

[Evan]

I found an SR22 crash that provides a pretty good example of the scenario. Stronger tailwinds than in this one but we have no idea where his airspeed was at that point.

https://www.boldmethod.com/blog/lear...o-final-crash/

[3WE]

Meanwhile, I can’t help noticing your refresh rate on insult material is getting critically low.

Your thought processes are getting awfully detached from reality. I’m trying to simplify things, but comprehension is critically low, too.

[Evan]

Your thought processes are getting awfully detached from reality. I’m trying to simplify things, but comprehension is critically low, too.

Okay. You get credit for trying.

How awfully detached from reality is this:

https://www.boldmethod.com/blog/lear...o-final-crash/

[Gabriel]

Are you trying to convince us that base-to-final turn stalls are a thing? Or that this happened in this accident?
What we know so far is not inconsistent with that possibility, if that makes you happy.

Now please note that the Cirrus of the accident was doing 60 knots and banking 30 degrees. 60 knots is already borderline stalled at 1G.

[3WE]

Okay. You get credit for trying.

How awfully detached from reality is this:

https://www.boldmethod.com/blog/lear...o-final-crash/

Updated…

So you, and a place or two in the article, want to use tailwind…that’s really the wrong term. That’s your departure from reality.

Its a crosswind towards the runway from downwind.

That wind continuously “tightens” your base to final turn, not ONLY during base leg, and not only from higher ground speed.

Your accident report is a pretty typical base to final turn, the procedure is in my next post below. Watching airspeed and making reasonable banks are important and prevent these and a few others.

As typical and explained already, you are incredibly locked in on one tree and missing the forest, and somehow convinced that this applies to the ATR (there’s no evidence of a steep turn) and to TeeVees acquaintances’ Bonanza bunch, where there’s no evidence of a steep turn.

[3WE]

Now please note that the Cirrus of the accident was doing 60 knots and banking 30 degrees. 60 knots is already borderline stalled at 1G.

Concur.

See my Avatar

Accelerated stalls are a thing.

Base-to-final stalls are also a thing- but have additional factors that add in.

A tailwind doesn’t really ad in.

Prevention:

1. Keep bank reasonable
2. Keep airspeed healthy
3. Be aware if you are pulling up a bit
4. Be smart if a CROSSwind is causing an overshoot…don’t make excessive banks to get lined up.
5. Don’t tunnel vision on the runway- monitor GD airspeed.
6. See my avatar.

(PS: Our ATR buds appear to have not_monitored airspeed…same as Hui Theiu Lo. See my avatar.)

Purchase MSFS, a side stick and hire a flight instructor. Rudder pedals are needed for some spin and crosswind maneuvers. See my avatar.

[Evan]

Are you trying to convince us that base-to-final turn stalls are a thing? Or that this happened in this accident?
What we know so far is not inconsistent with that possibility, if that makes you happy.

Now please note that the Cirrus of the accident was doing 60 knots and banking 30 degrees. 60 knots is already borderline stalled at 1G.

That they are a thing. In both this and the ATR-72 crash—as possible scenarios—the assumption is that the plane is already on the brink of stall at 1G. In this case, he has no thrust and altitude is life itself. I think that’s a fertile area for airspeed error, particularly when lost in IMC.

But the main reason for posting that is to show how a tailwind component can lead to a steeper bank in that turn to final.

[3WE]

the plane is already on the brink of stall at 1G.

That’s called airspeed management.

It fixes a very long list of things.

Including slightly accelerated stalls, wind gusts, and landings on beautiful Sunday afternoons.

[Evan]

That’s called airspeed management.

It fixes a very long list of things.

Including slightly accelerated stalls, wind gusts, and landings on beautiful Sunday afternoons.

Concur.

Pilots should always monitor airspeed.

Planes should never stall.

Engines should never fail.

Or get lost in IMC.