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B-17 Midair Collision at Dallas Airshow

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    Maximus has a vide of the NTSB conference where he superimposed many different videos from different angles, some of them pretty close-up. Man, such a violent mid-air. The Cobra got almost pulverized on impact.
    Can you post a link? It's not the voyeur in me. I find it terrible to watch. But I'd really like to understand what happened.

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    • #17
      They really just need to fly one at a time. They shouldn’t have multiple in the air at once for these vintage shows.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Evan View Post

        Can you post a link? It's not the voyeur in me. I find it terrible to watch. But I'd really like to understand what happened.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNnjqaJlHfY

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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        • #19
          Dan Gryder is claiming that the aircraft are put into the air and run a basic circuit to make passes in front of the crowd with the Air Boss giving instruction in real time from the ground to line up aircraft for group passes. He is claiming that the Air Boss gave the instruction to the P63 pilot to take the lead over the B17 for that pass. IF that is true, then one can see where the P63 pilot would give some throttle to overtake, causing his aircraft to go wide in the turn.

          I had thought the organizers were running the fighters on one circuit and the bombers on a different one, separating them by horizontal space. Finding out that they purposely have the fighters and bombers simply intermingling on the same route and same altitude is gross negligence IN MY OPINION. With the speed difference, this is a disaster waiting to happen. I agree with earlier comment that these precious treasures should not be placed anywhere near other aircraft. How many B17s will still be flying in 30 years? 50 years? 100 years? None if we keep allowing this to happen.

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          • #20
            So there were at least seven aircraft in the orbit around the airport. And as Jeffin says there was an Air Boss in radio communications with them all. Sounds like they have done this before. Twenty-five years ago I was flying a TBM in an airshow in Oregon. We had several a/c from an AT-6 to the B-17. Flying an orbit over the airport one of the pilots flying the Corsair, (Delta airlines and F-15 with the Nat'l Guard), called me and said he would catch me and form up for a formation pass. I gave him my altitude and speed. He cut across the orbit and came up under my right wing and his closure just stopped under my right wing. I'm glad he knew what he was doing.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by kent olsen View Post
              So there were at least seven aircraft in the orbit around the airport. And as Jeffin says there was an Air Boss in radio communications with them all. Sounds like they have done this before. Twenty-five years ago I was flying a TBM in an airshow in Oregon. We had several a/c from an AT-6 to the B-17. Flying an orbit over the airport one of the pilots flying the Corsair, (Delta airlines and F-15 with the Nat'l Guard), called me and said he would catch me and form up for a formation pass. I gave him my altitude and speed. He cut across the orbit and came up under my right wing and his closure just stopped under my right wing. I'm glad he knew what he was doing.
              Luckily he didn't get the Golden Hot Dog Award. The thing is, in these close maneuvers it's not just about knowing what you are doing, it's about your timing, knowing exactly where you are in relationship to everything else and where your momentum is going to take you. A small misjudgment isn't factored in. We've seen otherwise seasoned exhibition pilots make these fatal errors too many times before, even on maneuvers they have performed quite often. Even the Blue Angels can have a bad day:

              Originally posted by Accident Report
              Kuss made an error by starting the Split-S maneuver at a higher speed and below the required altitude, and investigators believe his other mistakes and oversights were likely due to tiredness.
              It looks to me as if the P-63 was chasing to form up with the fighter ahead which got in well in front of the B-17, while the P-63 misjudged the timing (way too close to the B-17 even if it had been successful) and possibly couldn't tighten the turn as he expected. Or maybe he was going for the Golden Hot Dog Award. If so, well, he got it.

              Heartbreaking loss of some gallant airmen and a spectacularly pristine B-17.

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              • #22
                Let’s put TCAS-like thingies in all these airplanes.
                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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