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E-170 lunges forward and kills rampie.

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  • E-170 lunges forward and kills rampie.

    12/31/2022

    The media has relatively few facts, but everyone feels bad about the incident and is cooperating fully.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  • #2
    Did not lunge forward. It was parked. Brakes on. The rampie was sucked into the engine... grim to even imagine.

    The official report was that he was sucked into the left hand engine. There's a lot of chatter that it must have been the right hand engine as that is the side where the rampie would likely be working. But I think it is SOP to never have the right engine operating on the ramp for just this reason. If it was the left, I question the quality of training this rampie received. Danger, jet intake should be lesson one. RIP rampie.

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    • #3
      The aircraft didn't lunge forward but remained stationary with one engine running, and the "he" was apparently a "she".

      This appears to be a truly tragic story of a ground worker, a young mother according to one account, inadvertently entering the unsafe zone around the parked aircraft as a short cut to get from the left side to the right. There's some concern that aerial photos of MGM appear to show that the apron markings are missing. Or they may have faded due to weather and they've not been repainted.

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      • #4
        How it should always be done:

        Click image for larger version

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        • #5
          Originally posted by flashcrash View Post
          The aircraft didn't lunge forward but remained stationary with one engine running, and the "he" was apparently a "she".

          This appears to be a truly tragic story of a ground worker, a young mother according to one account, inadvertently entering the unsafe zone around the parked aircraft as a short cut to get from the left side to the right. There's some concern that aerial photos of MGM appear to show that the apron markings are missing. Or they may have faded due to weather and they've not been repainted.
          it is sad for her family, but i'll bet she was trained where to walk and where not to walk. you cant protect some people from themselves.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TeeVee View Post

            it is sad for her family, but i'll bet she was trained where to walk and where not to walk. you cant protect some people from themselves.
            Nobody is perfect. Well trained, well intended, responsible people that want to follow their training to the last comma, make unintentional mistakes too.
            We all have moments of distraction, confusion, etc... That is why aviation safety needs to rely in more than just "don't make mistakes" to achieve the amazing level of safety it did.
            Outlines are painted. Cones are placed in front of engines that are not running. Lights are turned on before the 1st engine is going to be turned on and stays on until after the last engine is turned off. Etc...

            So...
            Was the person well trained? Did the person understand the training she received? Were all these other safety measures in place? Was the supervision creating a safety culture and atmosphere of compliance (vs just pushing workers to keep turnaround times at minimum)? There are a lot of factors to consider.

            If we just relied in people not making mistakes, airplanes we would have airplanes raining from the sky every day.
            The speed at which the safety record improves had a leap the day that we stopped attributing accidents to human error (and even human misconduct) alone.

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
              Was the supervision creating a safety culture and atmosphere of compliance (vs just pushing workers to keep turnaround times at minimum)?
              Well, it is a race-to-the-bottom-wring-profits-out-of-everything industry.

              New aircraft should have amber or red flashing leds embedded around the intake cowling leading edge that operate when the plane is in ground mode and the engine is running. This would be easy with today's technology.

              But this probably will never happen because replacing rampies is cheaper.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

                Nobody is perfect. Well trained, well intended, responsible people that want to follow their training to the last comma, make unintentional mistakes too.
                We all have moments of distraction, confusion, etc... That is why aviation safety needs to rely in more than just "don't make mistakes" to achieve the amazing level of safety it did.
                Outlines are painted. Cones are placed in front of engines that are not running. Lights are turned on before the 1st engine is going to be turned on and stays on until after the last engine is turned off. Etc...

                So...
                Was the person well trained? Did the person understand the training she received? Were all these other safety measures in place? Was the supervision creating a safety culture and atmosphere of compliance (vs just pushing workers to keep turnaround times at minimum)? There are a lot of factors to consider.

                If we just relied in people not making mistakes, airplanes we would have airplanes raining from the sky every day.
                The speed at which the safety record improves had a leap the day that we stopped attributing accidents to human error (and even human misconduct) alone.
                i hear ya, but you're dangerously close to something along the lines of: "the car went off the road because the driver lost control going the speed limit. we should lower the speed limit to make sure others dont lose control" instead of: the driver lacked skill and should not have been driving.

                sure, when we push people beyond or even close to their limits we do bear some responsibility. but in general there are careers that carry inherent dangers that those who work there must accept

                Comment


                • #9
                  My original title was because the only information out there was that the brakes WERE on. Initial information said nothing of which engine, and reported that a rampMAN was killed.

                  It just hit me that this may have had an insidious aspect.

                  Seems like on most of the flights, the startup does not happen UNTIL the plane is rolling backwards. But apparently the APU was Y2K, so I guess they started the engine at the gate. The ramp persons mindset might have been that the engine wasn’t running…. I can also imagine (pure speculation) someone came up with a random bag (not actually working the flight) and arrived on a non normal situation.

                  OR maybe just a pure brain fart…fortunately for me, 110V can be forgiving in the right places.
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    0th act (training)

                    NEVER approach an aircraft to position ground equipment next to an aircraft or open cargo bin doors until the engines are shut down and the rotating beacon(s) turned off.

                    1st act:

                    "Guys, the plane that is arriving to this gate in 10 minutes has the APU INOP so they need to keep the engines running until the ground power is connected. I don't need to explain to you how dangerous it is to be close to an engine running. Therefore, once the airplane stops no one will invade the safety zone, with the exception of Johnny that that will put the chokes under the nose wheels and connect the ground power, and then exit the safety zone towards the front of the plane. Only when we crosscheck that the engines have been shut down, the pilots turned off both the tom and bottom beacons, and the engines have visually spooled down, we may approach the plane to start the normal tasks"

                    2nd act

                    Here comes the plane. Remember everybody, the engines will remain running for a while. Remain out of the safety area until we verified that the engines have stopped.

                    3rd act

                    Airplane parks, engines and beacons remain on, multiple people starts running towards the plane and its engines.

                    The American Eagle Ground Operations Manual, Revision 3 dated July 13, 2022, states in part:

                    To Keep Employees Alive and Aircraft Intact, You Will:
                    NEVE
                    R approach an aircraft to position ground equipment next to an aircraft or open cargo bin doors until the engines are shut down and the rotating beacon(s) turned off.


                    The ground crew reported that a safety briefing was held about 10 minutes before the airplane arrived at the gate. A second safety “huddle” was held shortly before the airplane arrived at the gate, to reiterate that the engines would remain running until ground power was connected. It was also discussed that the airplane should not be approached, and the diamond of safety cones should not be set until the engines were off, spooled down, and the airplane’s rotating beacon light had been extinguished by the flight crew.

                    The American Eagle Ground Operations Manual, Revision 3 dated July 13, 2022, states in part: To Keep Employees Alive and Aircraft Intact, You Will: NEVER approach an aircraft to position ground equipment next to an aircraft or open cargo bin doors until the engines are shut down and the rotating beacon(s) turned off,


                    Video surveillance captured the accident sequence and showed the airplane being marshalled to the gate. After the nose wheel was chocked, the ramp agent marshaling the airplane walked toward the forward cargo door located on the right side and near the front of the airplane.

                    Simultaneously, another ramp agent appeared walking towards the back of the airplane with an orange safety cone where she disappeared from view. A third ramp agent located near the right wing tip could be seen gesturing with his hand towards the back of the airplane.

                    Meanwhile, a fourth ramp agent knelt near the airplane’s nose wheel. The ramp agent from the back of the airplane reappeared and began walking away from the airplane and towards the left wing tip where she disappeared from the camera’s field of view. The marshaller could be seen backing away from the airplane’s open forward cargo door and the ramp agent from the back of the airplane reappeared walking along the leading edge of the left wing and directly in front of the number one engine. She was subsequently pulled off her feet and into the operating engine. Throughout the course of the accident, the airplane’s upper rotating beacon light appeared to be illuminated.

                    One ramp agent located near the right wing tip stated that he observed another ramp agent approach the back of the airplane to set the rear safety cone. He observed her almost fall over from the engines exhaust while he attempted to alert her to stay back and wait for the engines to be shut down. He also stated that he observed the airplane’s upper and lower rotating beacon lights illuminated.

                    Another ramp agent stated that after chocking the nose wheel of the airplane, he observed another ramp agent approach the forward cargo door and he knelt to wave him off. He then observed another ramp agent about to set the safety cone at the rear of the airplane, he yelled and waved her off as the number 1 engine was still running. He observed her as she began to move away from the airplane before he turned to lower the cord for the ground power. Shortly thereafter he heard a “bang” and the engine shut down.

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hmmm. Doesn’t really track does it. Did that safety briefing have everyone’s full attention? Did that safety ‘huddle’ include contradictory prompts about the need to turn around the flight as quickly as possible. Was there a delay in getting the ground power hooked up? Are the rampies already rated and pressured on split-second “team-performance” time and can a short briefing override that? What level of English proficiency do the rampies possess? Rampie is often a foothold occupation for newly arrived immigrants.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Evan View Post
                        Did that safety ‘huddle’ include contradictory prompts about the need to turn around the flight as quickly as possible, [et al]
                        Probably not IN THE SAFETY BRIEFING, PER SE, but, I can just imagine all the great black and white HR and corporate metrics on turn around times and efficiency, an even an impressive record of always having a safety briefing… lots of great trees and checked boxes.

                        Rampie is often a foothold occupation for newly arrived immigrants.
                        I remember meeting a rampie in 1985. He was making a lot more money than I was and probably more than your typical regional turboprop newbie. The victim in this incident appears to be US and have English as their primary language.
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                          I remember meeting a rampie in 1985. He was making a lot more money than I was and probably more than your typical regional turboprop newbie. The victim in this incident appears to be US and have English as their primary language.
                          I imagine that some rampies are Webelos and some are Bobcats. There is probably some profound variation in salary and skill/experience requirement. I wonder if some are non-union.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So the pre-arrival safety briefing stated that (i) the aircraft would be parking at the gate with its APU inoperative, (ii) one engine would remain running until ground power was connected, and (iii) no-one was to place any cones until the ground power was connected and the engines were spooled down. And yet the rampies still go out there immediately and place cones? This doesn't make any sense. Did the safety briefing really cover the information the interim report says it did?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It seems to me that the means of communication out on the ramp is not so reliably effective. These rampies are scurrying about the danger zone with ear protection but not coms in the year 2023?

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