Safety?

[Gabriel]

I always fly with a CT scanner in my carryon to cover just this eventuality.

Well, a pulse oximeter is both oximeter and heart rate monitor (the "pulse" part) and it is an extremely common and portable device (that finger clip) that many people take with them either because they have some cardiopulmonar disease like COPD, or people that exercise a lot, or pilots (to check for hypoxia).

A glucose meter is something every person with Type-1 diabetes need to have with them all the time.

A blood pressure meter is becoming increasingly common these days where you have these automatic ones that don't need the stethoscope, there are some that are also quite small that you put in the wrist. Some people with hypertension have them. I've heard of a case where a doctor even used an i-phone EKG app to provide emergency medical assistance to a passenger in a plane.

In a plane with perhaps 300 passengers, it is not so incredible that he was able to find one of each. What is perhaps more incredible is that airlines don't include these very simple and inexpensive items in their medical emergency kit.

[Evan]

Well, a pulse oximeter is both oximeter and heart rate monitor (the "pulse" part) and it is an extremely common and portable device (that finger clip) that many people take with them either because they have some cardiopulmonar disease like COPD, or people that exercise a lot, or pilots (to check for hypoxia).

A glucose meter is something every person with Type-1 diabetes need to have with them all the time.

A blood pressure meter is becoming increasingly common these days where you have these automatic ones that don't need the stethoscope, there are some that are also quite small that you put in the wrist. Some people with hypertension have them. I've heard of a case where a doctor even used an i-phone EKG app to provide emergency medical assistance to a passenger in a plane.

In a plane with perhaps 300 passengers, it is not so incredible that he was able to find one of each. What is perhaps more incredible is that airlines don't include these very simple and inexpensive items in their medical emergency kit.

Aren't ETOP's flights required to have a defribrillator on board?

(Or any long haul flight venturing a significant distance from a diversion point)

[Gabriel]

Aren't ETOP's flights required to have a defribrillator on board?

(Or any long haul flight venturing a significant distance from a diversion point)

All commercial airlines in the U.S. are required to carry AEDs onboard and train their staff to use them. ETOPS or not.
I don't know about other parts of the words, and ETOPS requirements also are different in different parts of the world.

Not that an AED would have been of much help if the patient was not having a shockable hart rhythm. Which probably wasn't the case if the situation was controlled without a defibrillator.

Yeah and I am talking about things of which I know very little, so TeeVee, Brian, please jump in.

[kent olsen]

AVIATION SAFETY DISCUSSION. Still looking???????????

[3WE]

AVIATION SAFETY DISCUSSION. Still looking???????????

There’s a rather lively thread regarding an ATR crash that’s badly in need of some credentials. Do you need help finding it?

Also some discussions about procedures and ground-crew performance when aircraft are at gates with the engines potentially running are a hot topic. Insight from actual pilots is lacking there, too.

[Evan]

All commercial airlines in the U.S. are required to carry AEDs onboard and train their staff to use them. ETOPS or not.

Nice to know. I suppose it's available for an extra charge. No pun intended. Maybe cheaper if you buy it in advance?

[Not_Karl]

we all need bicycle-less, aeroplanie-less sterile bubbles

Deblued, expanded and CONCUR.

[ATLcrew]

Aren't ETOP's flights required to have a defribrillator on board?

(Or any long haul flight venturing a significant distance from a diversion point)

Never mind that. I'm more surprised that on a flight from the UK to India there were not more doctors on board than at any hospital they happened to overfly.

[Evan]

Never mind that. I'm more surprised that on a flight from the UK to India there were not more doctors on board than at any hospital they happened to overfly.

Maybe there were but they didn’t take his insurance.

[brianw999]

This should go some way to clearing the air regarding the carriage of defibrillators on aircraft. The following table shows the airlines that responded to a request for information on AEDs and whether or not their aircraft carry the devices.

The US Federal Aviation Authority has mandated that all commercial airlines operating within the US must have a defibrillator on board for passenger flights.

AIRLINE	AED DEFIBRILLATOR ON BOARD	MEDICAL INFO
Air France	Yes	More info here
Air Lingus	Yes	More here here
Air New Zealand	Yes	More info here
Aegean	No	More info here
Aeroflot	No response	More info here
Alitalia	Long-haul only	More info here
All Nippon Airlines	Yes	More info here
British Airways	Yes	More info here
Cathay Pacific	Yes	More info here
easyJet	Yes	More info here
Emirates	Yes	More info here
Etihad	Yes	More info here
Finnair	Yes	More info here
Japan Airlines	Yes	More info here
Jet2	Yes	More info here
KLM	Yes	More info here
Korean Air	No	More info here
Lufthansa	Yes	More info here
Norwegian	Yes	More info here
Qantas	No response	More info here
Qatar	Yes	More info here
Ryanair	Yes	More info here
SAS	Yes	More info here
Singapore Airlines	Yes	More info here
Swiss Air	Yes	More info here
Thomas Cook Airlines	Yes	More info here
TUI	Yes	More info here
Virgin Atlantic	Yes	More info here
Wizzair	No response	More info here

What is cardiac arrest and why do some airlines carry AED defibrillators on planes?
Cardiac arrest is caused by an abnormal heart rhythm which stops the heart pumping blood round the body. This can happen during a heart attack, but can also occur as a result of various other heart conditions. If a normal heart rhythm cannot be reinstated within in a few minutes, the person will not survive. It is sometimes be possible to keep victims alive with CPR – cardiopulmonary resuscitation – but typically a normal heart rhythm can only be restored by using a heart defibrillator. This is why many aircraft carry defibrillators.

Does air travel increase the risk of cardiac arrest?
There is no evidence to suggest air passengers are more likely to suffer from sudden cardiac arrest.


Are all UK aircraft required to carry an Automated External Defibrillator (AED)?
All airlines must train staff in first aid and all aircraft must carry first aid kits, but there is no legal requirement to carry an AED in the UK.
Elsewhere, it has been mandatory for all US commercial flights to be equipped with an AED since 2004. This applies to planes that have at least one flight attendant.

Do UK airlines carry AED defibrillators?
Despite not having a legal requirement to do so, it can be seen from our table, above, that many airlines flying from the UK include AEDs on their in-flight safety roster.

How many people suffer medical emergencies on flights?
There’s no way of knowing the exact number because there’s no mandatory reporting of such incidents.
However, studies suggest medical emergencies occur with a frequency of 1 per 10-40,000 passengers.

Can the AED really help save lives on planes?
Yes! Without an AED, a cardiac arrest is likely to result in a unsuccessful outcome if the plane needs to divert for treatment.
Success rates of up to 55% have been reported in people who received prompt CPR and AED use for cardiac arrest due to a ‘shockable rhythm’.

Could the AED be used incorrectly?
The type of device used on aircraft and other public places have automated operation, so will only shock the patient if it detects a suitable condition through sensors.

Can I fly with a heart condition?
Obviously, you should speak to a medical professional before flying, but in most cases, it’s likely that you will not be prevented from flying. Read our information guide to flying with heart conditions here.

Where are defibrillators located on the aircraft?
Defibrillators are typically located in the front of the aircraft and in the galley. They are easily accessible to the flight attendants

Are there any special considerations for using a defibrillator on an aircraft?
One major difference is that the cabin pressure can affect the performance of the defibrillator, so flight attendants are trained to adjust the settings accordingly
………….

it must be understood that a collapsed patient in cardiac arrest where there is no recorded electrical activity in the heart in the form of a flat line, known as Asystole then defibrillation will have no effect at all. For a defibrillator to work there has to be some pre-existing electrical activity, an Irregular activity that does not result in a heartbeat, known as ventricular fibrillation that the machine can treat. It is also a myth that defibrillators restart the heart. Administering a shock stuns the uncoordinated electrical activity in the heart and gives the normal activity a chance to reinstate itself and to return the the heart to its normal function.

[TeeVee]

All commercial airlines in the U.S. are required to carry AEDs onboard and train their staff to use them. ETOPS or not.
I don't know about other parts of the words, and ETOPS requirements also are different in different parts of the world.

Not that an AED would have been of much help if the patient was not having a shockable hart rhythm. Which probably wasn't the case if the situation was controlled without a defibrillator.

Yeah and I am talking about things of which I know very little, so TeeVee, Brian, please jump in.

brian covered it fairly well. the devices onboard are all AUTOMATIC defibrillators. they will only shock shockable rhythms. although it's been more than 20 years since i retired from paramedicine even the ones that came out back then were pretty accurate in discriminating shockable rhythms. EMT's carried them and we paramedics had modules that we inserted into the device to override the software if need be. i never once had to use a manual override. i imagine the devices today are even better. they certainly are a helluva lot smaller and lighter!!!

[3WE]

i never once had to use a manual override.

I feel a FBW, MCAS, FMS, FLCH, CB, RTO, ETC discussion coming on…

[TeeVee]

well, back then the beasts were called SAEDs as in semi-auto. with the emt module inserted, the machine decided whether a shock would be allowed, but a human had to press the charge and then shock buttons. so SAED with EMT-M...

[brianw999]

This is the Physio Control Lifepac 15 semi automatic defibrillator / cardiac monitor. It was introduced on the world wide market in March 2009 and remains as one of the most popular defibrillators available today. Around £13,000 to you sir. It has an automatic mode for first aider use as an emergency defibrillator and an unlockable manual mode for qualified personnel to use it as a manual defibrillator/diagnostic rhythm monitor. It also monitors blood pressure, oxygen saturation, pulse rate, cardiac rhythm and blood CO2 levels.
there are many fully automatic defibrillators on the market all priced at around £1,000. They are fully automated with operation being enacted via audio/visual instruction. One of the most popular makes is the Zoll unit pictured here.