NOTAM crashed

[Evan]

Flights are grounded across the US due to a problem coming from the FAA. It appears to be that the NOTAM network is down. I hope this isn’t another floppy drive issue.

[3WE]

Holy crap. I thought it was something important like ATC.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anything that was time critical on NOTAMS… I guess there’s exceptions, but I’d think there’s decent work arounds.

[3WE]

I hope this isn’t another floppy drive issue.

Not meaning to dismiss the humor, but in all seriousness, this is actually happening with our modern cloud iPad over inflated software with lacking backup systems.

I’ve been trying to visualize how SW’s crew scheduler was supposed to handle the incredible cascading loop of the Christmas storm system, as each change propagated more changes and cancellations spreading like a virus.

With a hub and spoke organization, your pilots and planes are morer together allowing more flexibility as you attack a meltdown…

WN was all over the place (literally geographically)…I ass-ume they might have a scheduling priority and some sort of mini hub so that the whole thing doesn’t melt down…but then again, everything breaks sometimes… shoulder shrug.

[fleckenmann]

Holy crap. I thought it was something important like ATC.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anything that was time critical on NOTAMS… I guess there’s exceptions, but I’d think there’s decent work arounds.

Really ? No NOTAM Info available for ATC and aircrews is a VERY serious issue

[Gabriel]

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen anything that was time critical on NOTAMS… I guess there’s exceptions, but I’d think there’s decent work arounds.

Then you have not seen much NOTAMS at all.
You have things from "RWY XX closed due to airplane disabled on RWY" to things that may not seem time-critical, but you want to know, before you take-off, that the runway where you plan to land has had, unbeknown to you, a temporarily displaced threshold that eats 2000 ft of the "normal" runway due to RWY surface repairs that have been going on for 2 weeks and will continue to go on for another 2 weeks.

[Evan]

Really ? No NOTAM Info available for ATC and aircrews is a VERY serious issue

I have to wonder how many aircrews actually bother to decipher them or even know how. The system was designed in an era of low-bandwidth telegraph. Perfectly readable text messages could replace them now. Old habits though...

Anyway, it's probably just a jammed punch-card reader. WIP PNCH CRD RDR NOT AVBL DUE JAM. Things should be back to 1949 normal soon.

[Gabriel]

I have to wonder how many aircrews actually bother to decipher them or even know how.

About all of them.

[fleckenmann]

I have to wonder how many aircrews actually bother to decipher them or even know how. The system was designed in an era of low-bandwidth telegraph. Perfectly readable text messages could replace them now. Old habits though...

Anyway, it's probably just a jammed punch-card reader. WIP PNCH CRD RDR NOT AVBL DUE JAM. Things should be back to 1949 normal soon.

You don’t have to wonder. It is a mandatory preflight item for all IFR Operations worldwide

[Evan]

About all of them.

Maybe 'about all of them'...

Following a near disasterous aborted taxiway landing at SFO in 2017, the report issued the following:

Probable Cause

The NTSB determines that the probable cause of this incident was the flight crew’s misidentification of taxiway C as the intended landing runway, which resulted from the crewmembers’ lack of awareness of the parallel runway closure due to their ineffective review of NOTAM information before the flight and during the approach briefing.

That helped usher in some calls for modernization:

https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...gs-2021-04-28/

[brianw999]

If our club CFI didn’t see us students studying the current NOTAM’s very shortly after arriving in the clubhouse then your day was guaranteed to become an unpleasant one.
I was learning to fly with the London Transport Flying Club based at Fairoaks. With the proximity of Farnborough, Heathrow and RAF Northolt with Gatwick not much further away there were invariably active NOTAMS just about every day.

[flashcrash]

Looks like faa.gov has gone offline now



Hmm what's the betting we'll find the NOTAM system runs on a non-redundant x86 PC using an unpatched version of Windows Vista?

[3WE]

Just saying there may be other avenues to track and communicate this riveting information. Non-standard safety areas...oh my! The runup pad is blocked with lighted baracades. Pilots who have vision problems should not taxi near the runup pad, I guess?


03/422 (A1985/22) Mar 25, 2022 00:09 LT
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RWY 12R/30L SAFETY AREA NOT STD S SIDE WEST OF TWY N. 25 MAR 00:09 2022 UNTIL 30 APR 23:59 2022. CREATED: 25 MAR 00:09 2022


03/418 (A1984/22) Mar 24, 2022 20:57 LT
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NAV ILS RWY 30L U/S. 28 MAR 12:30 2022 UNTIL 28 MAR 16:30 2022. CREATED: 24 MAR 20:57 2022


03/398 (A1966/22) Mar 23, 2022 16:36 LT
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RWY 29 ALS U/S. 28 MAR 14:00 2022 UNTIL 28 MAR 16:00 2022. CREATED: 23 MAR 16:36 2022


03/275 (A1841/22) Mar 15, 2022 15:45 LT
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RWY 06/24 SAFETY AREA NOT STD W SIDE BTN TWY F AND TWY V. 15 MAR 15:45 2022 UNTIL 31 MAR 23:59 2022. CREATED: 15 MAR 15:45 2022


03/129 Mar 8, 2022 01:22 LT
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TWY D CL MARKINGS BTN RWY 06/24 AND TWY U NOT STD. 08 MAR 01:23 2022 UNTIL 31 MAY 23:59 2022. CREATED: 08 MAR 01:22 2022


03/019 Mar 1, 2022 11:43 LT
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TWY S SFC PAINTED HLDG PSN SIGNS BTN TWY E AND APCH END RWY 12L NOT STD. 01 MAR 11:43 2022 UNTIL 30 APR 23:59 2022. CREATED: 01 MAR 11:43 2022


03/017 Mar 1, 2022 11:42 LT
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RWY 06 HLDG PSN MARKINGS AT RWY 12L/30R FADED. 01 MAR 11:42 2022 UNTIL 30 APR 23:59 2022. CREATED: 01 MAR 11:42 2022


03/016 (A1561/22) Mar 1, 2022 11:41 LT
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TWY B BTN TWY A4 AND TWY A5 NORTH SIDE IRREGULAR SFC. 01 MAR 11:41 2022 UNTIL 30 APR 23:59 2022. CREATED: 01 MAR 11:41 2022


03/015 (A1560/22) Mar 1, 2022 11:40 LT
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RWY 12R/30L SAFETY AREA NOT STD N SIDE BTN TWY V AND RWY 06/24. 01 MAR 11:40 2022 UNTIL 30 APR 23:59 2022. CREATED: 01 MAR 11:40 2022


03/014 (A1559/22) Mar 1, 2022 11:38 LT
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TWY L BTN TWY D AND RWY 12R/30L EAST SIDE IRREGULAR SFC. 01 MAR 11:38 2022 UNTIL 30 APR 23:59 2022. CREATED: 01 MAR 11:38 2022


03/013 (A1558/22) Mar 1, 2022 11:37 LT
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TWY S BTN APCH END RWY 06 AND TWY B EAST EDGE IRREGULAR SFC. 01 MAR 11:37 2022 UNTIL 30 APR 23:59 2022. CREATED: 01 MAR 11:37 2022


03/011 (A1556/22) Mar 1, 2022 11:35 LT
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TWY E RUNUP PAD WIP HVY EQPT SOUTHEAST EDGE LGTD AND BARRICADED. 01 MAR 11:35 2022 UNTIL 30 APR 23:59 2022. CREATED: 01 MAR 11:35 2022


03/008 (A1555/22) Mar 1, 2022 11:34 LT
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RWY 12R BAK-14 ARST SYSTEM U/S. 01 MAR 11:34 2022 UNTIL 30 APR 23:59 2022. CREATED: 01 MAR 11:34 2022


03/009 (A1554/22) Mar 1, 2022 11:34 LT
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TWY V2 BTN JET CENTER RAMP AND TWY V CLSD. 01 MAR 11:34 2022 UNTIL 30 APR 23:59 2022. CREATED: 01 MAR 11:34 2022


02/780 (A1250/22) Feb 22, 2022 16:08 LT
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RWY 06/24 SAFETY AREA NOT STD E EDGE BTN RWY 12L/30R AND 12R/30L. 22 FEB 16:08 2022 UNTIL 31 MAY 23:59 2022. CREATED: 22 FEB 16:08 2022


FDC 2/1562 (A0867/22) Feb 4, 2022 16:08 LT
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SID ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, St Louis, MO. PLESS FIVE DEPARTURE... NASHVILLE TRANSITION NA EXCEPT FOR AIRCRAFT EQUIPPED WITH SUITABLE RNAV SYSTEM WITH GPS, BNA VOR OUT OF SERVICE. 04 FEB 16:08 2022 UNTIL 11 MAY 16:08 2022 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 04 FEB 16:08 2022


01/299 (A0231/22) Jan 13, 2022 07:59 LT
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AD AP RDO ALTIMETER UNREL. AUTOLAND, HUD TO TOUCHDOWN, ENHANCED FLT VISION SYSTEMS TO TOUCHDOWN, HEL OPS REQUIRING RDO ALTIMETER DATA TO INCLUDE HOVER AUTOPILOT MODES AND CAT A/B/PERFORMANCE CLASS TKOF AND LDG NOT AUTHORIZED EXC FOR ACFT USING APPROVED ALTERNATIVE METHODS OF COMPLIANCE DUE TO 5G C-BAND INTERFERENCE PLUS SEE AIRWORTHINESS DIRECTIVES 2021-23-12, 2021-23-13. 19 JAN 05:01 2022 UNTIL 19 JAN 05:01 2024. CREATED: 13 JAN 07:59 2022


FDC 2/3718 (A0228/22) Jan 13, 2022 05:02 LT
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IAP ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. ILS RWY 11 (CAT II - III), AMDT 1 ... ILS RWY 12L (CAT II - III), AMDT 6C ... ILS RWY 30R (CAT II - III), AMDT 12 ... PROCEDURE NA EXC FOR ACFT USING APPROVED ALTERNATIVE METHODS OF COMPLIANCE DUE TO 5G C-BAND INTERFERENCE PLUS SEE AIRWORTHINESS DIRECTIVES 2021-23-12, 2021-23-13. 19 JAN 05:00 2022 UNTIL 19 JAN 05:01 2024 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 13 JAN 05:02 2022


FDC 1/1117 (A6626/21) Nov 2, 2021 11:10 LT
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ODP ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. TAKEOFF MINIMUMS AND (OBSTACLE) DEPARTURE PROCEDURES AMDT 3... TAKE-OFF MINIMUMS RWY 12R, 300-1 OR STANDARD WITH MINIMUM CLIMB OF 308 FT PER NM TO 800. TAKEOFF OBSTACLE NOTES: RWY 12R, TEMPORARY CRANE, 4008 FT FROM DER, 708 FT RIGHT OF CENTERLINE, 133 AGL/740 MSL (2021-ACE-4418-OE). ALL OTHER DATA REMAINS AS PUBLISHED. 02 NOV 12:00 2021 UNTIL 29 SEP 11:09 2022 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 02 NOV 11:10 2021


FDC 1/1118 (A6627/21) Nov 2, 2021 11:10 LT
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SID ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. GATEWAY ONE DEPARTURE... LINDBERGH EIGHT DEPARTURE... OZARK EIGHT DEPARTURE... PLESS FIVE DEPARTURE... TAKE-OFF MINIMUMS RWY 12R, 300-1 OR STANDARD WITH MINIMUM CLIMB OF 308 FT PER NM TO 800. TAKEOFF OBSTACLE NOTES: RWY 12R, TEMPORARY CRANE, 4008 FT FROM DER, 708 FT RIGHT OF CENTERLINE, 133 AGL/740 MSL (2021-ACE-4418-OE). ALL OTHER DATA REMAINS AS PUBLISHED. 02 NOV 12:00 2021 UNTIL 29 SEP 11:09 2022 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 02 NOV 11:10 2021
FDC 1/1119 (A6628/21) Nov 2, 2021 11:10 LT
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IAP ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. RNAV (RNP) Z RWY 30L, AMDT 1A... RNP 0.15 DA 990/HAT 407 ALL CATS. VIS RVR 5000 ALL CATS. RNP 0.30 DA 1046/HAT 463 ALL CATS. VIS RVR 5000 ALL CATS. FOR INOPERATIVE ALS, INCREASE RNP 0.15 AND RNP 0.30 ALL CATS VISIBILITY TO 1 3/8 SM. TEMPORARY CRANE, 740 MSL, 4282 FT SE OF APCH END RWY 30L (2021-ACE-4418-OE). 02 NOV 12:00 2021 UNTIL 29 SEP 11:09 2022 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 02 NOV 11:10 2021


FDC 1/7583 (A4651/21) Jul 12, 2021 14:48 LT
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ODP ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. TAKEOFF MINIMUMS AND (OBSTACLE) DEPARTURE PROCEDURES AMDT 3... TAKE-OFF MINIMUMS RWY 24: 300-1 3/8 OR STANDARD WITH MINIMUM CLIMB OF 205 FT PER NM TO 800. ALL OTHER DATA REMAINS AS PUBLISHED. 12 JUL 14:47 2021 UNTIL 12 JUL 14:47 2023 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 12 JUL 14:48 2021


FDC 1/6489 (A4568/21) Jul 9, 2021 14:29 LT
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IAP ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. RNAV (GPS) Y RWY 12R, AMDT 1D... LPV DA NA ALL CATS; LNAV MDA 1020/HAT 480 ALL CATS. 09 JUL 14:28 2021 UNTIL 09 JUL 14:28 2023 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 09 JUL 14:29 2021


FDC 1/6490 (A4569/21) Jul 9, 2021 14:29 LT
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IAP ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. RNAV (GPS) Y RWY 30L, AMDT 2... LPV DA NA ALL CATS. 09 JUL 14:28 2021 UNTIL 09 JUL 14:28 2023 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 09 JUL 14:29 2021


FDC 1/6492 (A4570/21) Jul 9, 2021 14:29 LT
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IAP ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. RNAV (RNP) Z RWY 11, ORIG-B... RNP 0.30 DA 917/HAT 299 ALL CATS, VISIBILITY ALL CATS 3/4. 09 JUL 14:28 2021 UNTIL 09 JUL 14:28 2023 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 09 JUL 14:29 2021


FDC 1/6493 (A4571/21) Jul 9, 2021 14:29 LT
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IAP ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. RNAV (GPS) Y RWY 30R, AMDT 2A... LNAV/VNAV DA 914/HAT 309 ALL CATS; LNAV MDA 1020/HAT 415 ALL CATS. 09 JUL 14:28 2021 UNTIL 09 JUL 14:28 2023 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 09 JUL 14:29 2021


FDC 1/6494 (A4573/21) Jul 9, 2021 14:29 LT
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IAP ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. ILS OR LOC RWY 12R, AMDT 23... S-ILS 12R DA 790/HAT 250 ALL CATS. 09 JUL 14:28 2021 UNTIL 09 JUL 14:28 2023 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 09 JUL 14:29 2021


FDC 1/6496 (A4572/21) Jul 9, 2021 14:29 LT
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IAP ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. ILS OR LOC RWY 30L, AMDT 13... S-ILS 30L DA 911/HAT 328 ALL CATS. 09 JUL 14:28 2021 UNTIL 09 JUL 14:28 2023 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 09 JUL 14:29 2021


FDC 1/6499 (A4574/21) Jul 9, 2021 14:29 LT
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IAP ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. RNAV (RNP) Z RWY 30L, AMDT 1A... RNP 0.15 DA 987/HAT 404 ALL CATS; RNP 0.30 DA 1042/HAT 459 ALL CATS. 09 JUL 14:28 2021 UNTIL 09 JUL 14:28 2023 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 09 JUL 14:29 2021


FDC 1/6500 (A4575/21) Jul 9, 2021 14:29 LT
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IAP ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. ILS OR LOC RWY 6, AMDT 3... S-ILS 6 DA NA ALL CATS. 09 JUL 14:28 2021 UNTIL 09 JUL 14:28 2023 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 09 JUL 14:29 2021


FDC 1/6501 (A4576/21) Jul 9, 2021 14:29 LT
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IAP ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. RNAV (GPS) RWY 6, AMDT 2... LNAV/VNAV DA NA ALL CATS. NOTE: RWY 6 HELICOPTER VISIBILITY REDUCTION BELOW 3/4 SM NOT AUTHORIZED. 09 JUL 14:28 2021 UNTIL 09 JUL 14:28 2023 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 09 JUL 14:29 2021


FDC 1/8585 (A1884/21) Feb 26, 2021 13:28 LT
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SID ST LOUIS LAMBERT INTL, ST LOUIS, MO. ROTRY FIVE DEPARTURE (RNAV)... BRADFORD TRANSITION: ROTRY TO SKUTR MOCA 2300. ALL OTHER DATA REMAINS AS PUBLISHED. 26 FEB 13:27 2021 UNTIL 27 FEB 13:27 2023 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 26 FEB 13:28 2021

[3WE]

I have to wonder how many aircrews actually bother to decipher them or even know how. The system was designed in an era of low-bandwidth telegraph. Perfectly readable text messages could replace them now. Old habits though...

Anyway, it's probably just a jammed punch-card reader. WIP PNCH CRD RDR NOT AVBL DUE JAM. Things should be back to 1949 normal soon.

Hyperbole?

[Evan]

Looks like faa.gov has gone offline now

Hmm what's the betting we'll find the NOTAM system runs on a non-redundant x86 PC using an unpatched version of Windows Vista?

I think that's being generous. Think wet-cell batteries and loop antennae. Lightning must have struck the Tesla coil.

CQD STRK ICBRG

Hyperbole?

I hope so.

[Gabriel]

Maybe 'about all of them'...

Following a near disasterous aborted taxiway landing at SFO in 2017, the report issued the following:



That helped usher in some calls for modernization:

https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...gs-2021-04-28/

Your question, and my answer, was about air crews bothering or knowing how to decipher NOTAMS. Not about air crews making mistakes when doing so. Mistakes which, by the way, are not due to the special shorthand language used in them.

The problem is more related to there being too many NOTAMS, most of them not relevant or really important for the particular mission, which are then presented to the crews in an unorganized way. It is hard for the crews to find the needle in the haystack. Even if they were written in plain English.