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  • Don’t tell Evan

    Rudder usage…

    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  • #2
    And your point is?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
      And your point is?
      I once mentioned that the rudder on a large transport is not used the way one might use it on a Cessna (or a Cub), that it is mainly there for adding and removing yaw in crosswind landings and for thrust asymmetry compensation and directional control on the runway, that is isn't needed to contend with roll excursions in wake turbulence and that it should never be used in large rudder-reversals that might overstress the stabilizer. He either didn't get that or he's just being the troll that he is.

      Works every time. I'll give him that.

      Comment


      • #4
        Made no sense to me either. I thought it was my Cub at first! It's actually not a real Cub. It's a Carbon Cub. It has lights and an electric system. Probably has an electric starter ​​and probably cost 150k!

        Comment


        • #5
          Well try this on for size. Teaching in the DC-8 and 747, IOE, Initial Operating Experience. Both a/c are very susceptible to sucking up things with the outboard engines while reversing on landing, especially the DC-8 so you need to land in the middle of the runway. So the way I taught landings and especially Xwind landings was to line up on final, keep the wings level with the ailerons and use the rudders to crab into the wind. Making small crab angles allowed you to stay on the centerline. Especially on the 747 you could stay lined up and move 10-15 ft and when you eased off on the rudder it would stop right there. If you tried banking to move 10-15ft you had so much inertia it would continue moving left or right. Now you have been working the rudders on final and at the flare you can feel just how much rudder to remove the crab for the landing.

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          • #6
            For those of you that have never worked inside the industry, there is an old saying.

            "Those that can do, those that can't teach. Those that can't teach become management"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
              For those of you that have never worked inside the industry, there is an old saying.

              "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach."
              Fixed.

              Those that can't teach, teach gym.

              Old saying.

              Comment


              • #8
                That who knows, knows. That who doesn't, is the boss.

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                  And your point is?
                  Well-controlled sideslips are cool to watch.

                  And, although I’m an outsider, rudders might have some value for yaw control.

                  And Evan always forgets to mention how light, 1.25” pedal inputs give full rudder deflections on some types.

                  Light, 1.25” pedal inputs result in light rudder deflections in this type.
                  Last edited by 3WE; 2023-03-01, 13:11.
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                    And Evan always forgets to mention how light, 2” pedal inputs give full rudder deflections on some types.
                    And 3WE forgets to mention that doing so is structurally safe from neutral to either direction. But not reversing from one side to the other. Which is not something an airline pilot would ever need to do in flight. Input rudder. Remove rudder. It's not a paddle boat.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Evan
                      Input rudder. Remove rudder.


                      1.25” pedal reversals (kind of seen in the OP) are generally not_a structural nor even a comfort issue. (Mild sarcasm may be present with one word)
                      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kent olsen View Post
                        …Now you have been working the rudders on final and at the flare...
                        I hope you never transitioned from left to right, or vice versa…
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well rudders are a flight control just like ailerons and elevators. If you are in a position where you need max deflection on any one, you shouldn't be there. When i started flying jets I was told you don't need the rudders.

                          Here's another one: when transitioning into the Hawker 1000 we had to do some landings in the a/c. The instructor told us to trim the nose down on final so that in the event of a go-around you wouldn't have to trim as the flaps retracted to 20 deg. 'Distraction' boom! ground contact. don't believe everything you hear.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                            Rudder usage…

                            [..]
                            For people who don't necessarily operate the French language in their signature, we should probably explain the most important words within a Cessna 152 or within a Boeing B744:
                            rudder (dt. Seitenruder) >> The pedals at your feet, in a Cessna or in a B744. For use only with care and when ct has published the weather for you on final.
                            aileron (dt. Querruder) >> The difference between a Cessna and an A320. Stick or not, this is the question.
                            elevator (dt. Höhenruder) >> Ask Flight Captain Sullenberger, with this stick you can be a hero, or dead on impact (cp AF-A332).

                            And what now is the thing that Evan shouldn't know?

                            Dear greetings my friend.
                            The German long haul is alive, 65 years and still kicking.
                            The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                            And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                            This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As usual useless dribble.

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