Disorientation and Loss of control 8,654,659

[3WE]

https://youtu.be/2pCFKYKeZcI?si=rMV4NMiiwiWofkkV

Question to Bobby and Bernt:

Have you ever felt a shred of disorientation? ATL crew said “No” a while back.

[3BS Redundant mode]

I continue to be amazed at disorientation crashes BY INSTRUMENT PILOTS.

I took about 10 hours of instrument instruction.

-I considered it hugely valuable
-I could see how US PPL instrument training was inadequate for IMC.
-I found reading charts, tuning radios, communicating and flying PRECISELY overwhelming.
-I FOUND KEEPING THE GREASY SIDE DOWN AND THE BANK REASONABLE TO BE EASY…even on partial panel.
-Playing MSFS, I discovered it was handy to turn on Otto, freeing me to read charts, mess with radios and sip my beer.
-I also found it a lazy way to get the plane to fly precisely.
-I recall two cases of disorientation:
-One time, I moved the aileron and the bank got steeper…whoops.
-I was riding a northbound J-31 with the curtain pulled back in a huge area of old fashioned IMC winter rain… “Wow, we’re on a 180 heading…(holding pattern and I never felt the 180 degree turn)”
(IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: I did VERY LITTLE in true IMC including the dreaded “grab-something-from-the-back-seat”.
-And yes, on average, pilots can spend very little time in true IMC

Forgive the next comment: What do We do about this? One hour a month in genuine workout in a simulator with “extreme” attitude recovery? Somehow get guys to greatly limit autopilot usage? Ban IFR unless you are an ATP in a quadruple-redundant aircraft? More automation.

[3WE]

I also find it sad that this conversation is likely to have happened:

”I hate little planes, they seem dangerous”

”Nah, I have lots of performance and training and electronic wizardry…it’s much safer than driving” [perhaps it is, but they probably would have fared better on a WN 737].

[BoeingBobby]

https://youtu.be/2pCFKYKeZcI?si=rMV4NMiiwiWofkkV

Question to Bobby and Bernt:

Have you ever felt a shred of disorientation? ATL crew said “No” a while back.

Every morning when I wake up.

[bstolle]

https://youtu.be/2pCFKYKeZcI?si=rMV4NMiiwiWofkkV
Have you ever felt a shred of disorientation?

Yep, a few times. Luckily I did have a few thousand hours at that time, so staying/reverting to instrument flying was possible without too much problems.

[3WE]

I found this crash discussed here: https://jetcareers.com/forums/thread...-crash.338545/

Its all speculation, but there seemed to be a consensus that folks in this category do wind up being autopilot operators, badly out of practice for hand flying in true IMC.

I trust that airline pilots are very competent, but on a percentage basis, they aren’t hand flying in IMC much.

[bstolle]

I think that the important difference is the time spent in IMC, not if you are hand flying or not. If you have spent a few thousand hours flying on instruments only, it's less likely that you suffer from disorentation, at least that's my impression.

[3WE]

I think that the important difference is the time spent in IMC, not if you are hand flying or not. If you have spent a few thousand hours flying on instruments only, it's less likely that you suffer from disorentation, at least that's my impression.

I agree and disagree, and perhaps the distinction is full time pilots vs not_full time.

Full timers get some regular IMC and don’t you do at least a little-hand flown IMC for real or during recurrent training?

Whereas the part timers see somewhat limited IMC and when they do, they rely on the autopilot?

My solution for part timers (and yes, it’s all hot air) would be 30 min of simulator IMC every 3 months with 10 min of work on hand flying, 10 min of autopiloing and an approach. (Or equivalent in true IMC)

Just blabbing: the use of light aircraft for true transportation opens the door to weather risks and autopilot failures.

[bstolle]

Sounds like an improvement of aviation safety!
That said, there are even highly experienced airline pilots who are unable to maintain altitude within 500ft in a flightpath stable A320 during manual flight!