Azerbaijan E190 Crash in Kazakhstan

[TeeVee]

and once again the shit-eating douchebags of world kill innocents. as before, they will get away with it.

[Evan]

CNN is putting it out there that the cause might have been Russian "systems". Other legitimate press are more pensive, but reporting that it is a "focus".
'

[Gabriel]

and once again the shit-eating douchebags of world kill innocents. as before, they will get away with it.

Unfortunately, shooting down the wrong target is not an exclusive feat of the bad guys. The US did it too.
USS Vincennes shooting down Iran Air Flight 655US (which was a known scheduled flight which was just following its flight plane and climbing) was particularly outrageous. Not intentional, but too "trigger-happy".

And just last week two F-18's were coming back to their USS Harry S. Truman aircraft carrier when the guided-missile cruiser USS Gettysburg, which is part of the same USS Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group, shoot missiles at both F-18's "successfully" shooting down one of them. Luckily both pilots* were able to eject and to be rescued, one of them resulting uninjured and the other one suffering minor injuries.

These things are rare but do happen and will keep happening. For civilian flights, the solution is stop flying into active conflict zones where air defenses are deployed.

[Evan]

Unfortunately, shooting down the wrong target is not an exclusive feat of the bad guys. The US did it too.
USS Vincennes shooting down Iran Air Flight 655US (which was a known scheduled flight which was just following its flight plane and climbing) was particularly outrageous. Not intentional, but too "trigger-happy".

And just last week two F-18's were coming back to their USS Harry S. Truman aircraft carrier when the guided-missile cruiser USS Gettysburg, which is part of the same USS Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group, shoot missiles at both F-18's "successfully" shooting down one of them. Luckily both pilots* were able to eject and to be rescued, one of them resulting uninjured and the other one suffering minor injuries.

These things are rare but do happen and will keep happening. For civilian flights, the solution is stop flying into active conflict zones where air defenses are deployed.

I think it gets complicated when you are more or less living in a conflict zone. It's still very unclear to me what happened where, but didn't the diversion cause the flight to stray into the conflict zone? Not that it was a designated no-fly zone. Just a hornet's nest of Russian stupidity. The solution is to embrace peaceful coexistence and to stop choosing narcissistic madmen as our leaders.

My other takeaway from this is that Russian air defenses have become pretty lame if they can't even make a direct hit on an E-jet with an active transponder.

[TeeVee]

Unfortunately, shooting down the wrong target is not an exclusive feat of the bad guys. The US did it too.
USS Vincennes shooting down Iran Air Flight 655US (which was a known scheduled flight which was just following its flight plane and climbing) was particularly outrageous. Not intentional, but too "trigger-happy".

And just last week two F-18's were coming back to their USS Harry S. Truman aircraft carrier when the guided-missile cruiser USS Gettysburg, which is part of the same USS Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group, shoot missiles at both F-18's "successfully" shooting down one of them. Luckily both pilots* were able to eject and to be rescued, one of them resulting uninjured and the other one suffering minor injuries.

These things are rare but do happen and will keep happening. For civilian flights, the solution is stop flying into active conflict zones where air defenses are deployed.

right. we did it once. the russians have done it how many times???

[TeeVee]

I think it gets complicated when you are more or less living in a conflict zone. It's still very unclear to me what happened where, but didn't the diversion cause the flight to stray into the conflict zone? Not that it was a designated no-fly zone. Just a hornet's nest of Russian stupidity. The solution is to embrace peaceful coexistence and to stop choosing narcissistic madmen as our leaders.

My other takeaway from this is that Russian air defenses have become pretty lame if they can't even make a direct hit on an E-jet with an active transponder.

not defending ruskies, but will play devil's advocate here. maybe it wasnt a direct hit because the intended target was a nearby drone.

either way, what kind of idiots fly through or even close to these zones?

[Gabriel]

right. we did it once. the russians have done it how many times???

Three that I can remember. How many wars were fought in the continental US and neighboring countries since airplanes exist?

[bstolle]

My other takeaway from this is that Russian air defenses have become pretty lame if they can't even make a direct hit on an E-jet with an active transponder.

TeeVee: maybe it wasnt a direct hit because the intended target was a nearby drone.

That's not how such missiles work AFAIK.

[Evan]

not defending ruskies, but will play devil's advocate here. maybe it wasnt a direct hit because the intended target was a nearby drone.

either way, what kind of idiots fly through or even close to these zones?

That's possible. The BUK that downed the Malaysian 777 was a proximity device that detonated just in front of the target, not behind it. So the E190 might not have been the target at all.

[TeeVee]

putin apologized without saying anything more. my guess is the final assessment will be missile fragments. if we are lucky, someone will be able to determine who manufactured it. and once again, nothing will happen after that.

[TeeVee]

Three that I can remember. How many wars were fought in the continental US and neighboring countries since airplanes exist?

absolutely does NOT make a difference. our armed forces have been active all over the world for over 100 years.

[bstolle]

..nothing will happen after that.

What do you expect should happen? AFAIK the airport was under attack from Ukranian Drones at that time and the NOTAMS didn't exactly recommend flying in this area.

I still remember my 767 times when we were constantly flying over Afghanistan when the U.S. tried to find Bin Laden in this area.
The NOTAMS recommended to avoid this area, but no one cared and of our 2 Copis refused to perform such flights.

[Evan]

What do you expect should happen? AFAIK the airport was under attack from Ukranian Drones at that time and the NOTAMS didn't exactly recommend flying in this area.

I expect them to close the airspace before shooting things into it. But I have no credentials to back that up.

[bstolle]

This was a flight off it’s intended flight plan in an active war zone, so AA is certainly a possibility

[TeeVee]

What do you expect should happen? AFAIK the airport was under attack from Ukranian Drones at that time and the NOTAMS didn't exactly recommend flying in this area.

I still remember my 767 times when we were constantly flying over Afghanistan when the U.S. tried to find Bin Laden in this area.
The NOTAMS recommended to avoid this area, but no one cared and of our 2 Copis refused to perform such flights.

there's blame all around. but as we all know, this plane was squawking loud and clear. i doubt anyone cared. i expect those responsible to pay with their own lives. happy?