Jeju Air737-800 Crash at MWX (Muan International Airport, South Korea)

[bstolle]

On a news platform, an official report came out stating that partial pilot error was involved. As Airbus planes have a function that activates all flaps whereas the Boeing need to activate two flickers/buttons. The pilot panicked, thought this was an Airbus case and activated only one control.

What???

[bstolle]

You practiced ditching in a 767?! What was the point of that?

Has anyone ever successfully ditched a widebody aircraft? Is it physically possible?

I find the ditching switch on the Airbus widebodies to be a bit of wishful thinking.

That was in the first few month after the Cactus crash. The reason is obvious.

Yes and no. ET961 would have successfully ditched if the hijacker wouldn't have grabbed the controls at the last moment.

Even the narrowbody Airbuses have a ditching switch with is good idea.

[bstolle]

I'm wondering about the possibility that the PF wanted the gear left extended in the go-around..

On the birdstrike part of the video it looks like the gear was still retracted when the compressor stall occured.

[Evan]

On the birdstrike part of the video it looks like the gear was still retracted when the compressor stall occured.

I'm thinking that might be a secondary strike. The #2 gets hit in that video. It is also the one that seems to be producing some thrust in the landing video (and with the reverser open). The emergency and go-around could have been initiated by a strike that took out #1.

[Observer]

Does #2 open reverse indicate minimun hydraulic system functioning ?
If yes, why “flat configuration” and no landing gears ?

[Evan]

Does #2 open reverse indicate minimun hydraulic system functioning ?
If yes, why “flat configuration” and no landing gears ?

The 737NG has sleeve-type reversers that are operated either by the primary A/B hydraulics or by the backup system. But we don’t have a reference for how sleeve-type reversers hold up when the aircraft is sliding them down the runway, The fact that the one in the video is open could just be due to this.

The lack of configuration is open to speculation at this point, with a few plausible explanations to choose from, ranging from mechanical failure to pilot strategy to pilot error. No way of telling at this point, but read the entire thread.

[LH-B744]

A lot of comments, photos and videos out there with no official or reliable info, but from those surces...

The plane was landing, not taking off.
The plane made multiple approaches.
In one video the #2 engine (right) can be seen sputtering a puff of fire and smoke, apparently while on approach (or go around) with the gear apparently up.
Some rumor talking about a failed go-around hence the gear up. Could it be that they forgot to add power? (go around, gear up, flaps 15... Am I forgetting something, why are we not climbing?)

This rumor is a good speculation, it would explain several things:
- The gar-up condition
- The flaps/slats position (it's not clear in the crash video but it is very clearly either up or "some", not anywhere close to a landing position)
- Why is it sliding so fast so far down the runway. An intentional gear-up landing would be done with minimum fuel/weight and hence minimum speed, in the order of 120 kts, from which you don't need a lot of runway to slide to a stop, let alone depart the end of the runway, let alone depart the end of the runway at high speed and slide through additional 100m of concrete (stepway) and 150m of grass.

By the way, the plane did not crash against a wall, it crashed against an earth embankment on top of which the localizer antenna is mounted. Some pictures clearly show that. It can also be seen in the crash video if you stop it at the frame immediately before the impact.

Well. I know the both of us like GOOD sources. So, let me deliver...

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeju-Air-Flug_2216

and, believe it or not, that is different and independent from the following (!):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeju_Air_Flight_2216

And let me say, avherald seems to have become weaker during the past more than 16 years (which I'm here now), my new favorite is this one:

https://asn.flightsafety.org/asndb/468716

So. Probably I need two minutes to read and understand what you've written, my friend, and you need two minutes to open all weblinks that I provide here in my number 16 ?

Back in a few minutes.

[LH-B744]

From the de wiki:

Das Flugzeug hatte zunächst zu einem ersten Anflug von Süden aus kommend auf die Landebahn 01 (RWY 01) angesetzt; eine Videoaufnahme zeigt eine Flamme, die hierbei aus dem rechten Triebwerk kam.

Today, on this very very very last day of the year, December 31st 2024, 00:52 CET (Central European Winter), I seem to be responsible to translate this quotation.

Because, imho, that's not part of the en wiki!

So, let me have a try:

The aircraft, type 737-800 (two engined jet, MTOW 79 metric tons), originally was on approach comin in from the South, cleared to land rwy 01 RKJB Muan Intl airport; when a video shows a flame, which during that approach originated from the starboard engine (engine #2).

[...]

[LH-B744]

And, as a short intermediate message, only due to this fatal accident, which as a sign of very bad karma happened on a sunday morning (local time),

I have added the RKJB rwy 01/19 to my p3dv4.5 . That's no rocket science, that happened on a sunday afternoon.

And I also tested what I created, but I don't own Captain Randazzos B737 for p3dv4.5 . I own and fly Randazzos B744 for p3dv4.5 , but that's not the same.

So, in this moment I am not able to simulate what exactly happened with this B738, but, without real weather, and tested with a Rockwell Commander 114 propeller,

the RKJB rwy 01 does not really seem to be dangerous...

No high mountains, 52 AMSL, the rwy 2800 meters long and 45 meters wide, so,


my very first question is,

What on Earth happened in the head of that B738 Flight Captain with more than 6800 flight hours, so that he decided to go around on the RKJB rwy 01 .

He then, after his MAYDAY message for RKJB Control, was cleared to land rwy 19, which in my eyes is something like a small masterpiece of RKJB control. He (or she) in the tower was able

to delete and divert all traffic for rwy 01,

so that this 7C-B738 was able to be cleared for the total opposite direction, 19 instead of 01, and all that on a rather small 'single rwy airport'.

My respect for RKJB control!

[3WE]

Please explain what the curse you mean with 15 posts / no obvious acknowledgement?

Gabriel:

Evan and I mentioned birds, reports of bird ingestion, reports of flocks crossing the flight path, etc 7 times in different posts.

"I hereby solemnly affirm that I acknowledge that thor commented that airports officials reported bird strike, so help me God"

Obvious enough now?

No, I mostly see dual generator failures and repetition that it was a dirt embankment and all sorts of stuff that deviates from a huge ass primary factor.

Comments that birds caused severe damage to both engines seem lost in pedantic speculation about the exact sequence of events.

A shame that there didn’t seem to be a Hudson-like body of water.

[Gabriel]

No, I mostly see dual generator failures and repetition that it was a dirt embankment and all sorts of stuff that deviates from a huge ass primary factor.

Comments that birds caused severe damage to both engines seem lost in pedantic speculation about the exact sequence of events.

A shame that there didn’t seem to be a Hudson-like body of water.

thor: "airport official said bird strike"

Gabe: "... makes me think of a different hypothesis: dual generators failure (which may mean dual engine failure) during go around."
Evan: "The pilots may have decided on a gear-up, flaps 15 approach and landing (as last-seconds alternate gear would have required too much time/focus) in order to extend the glide if they were without effective thrust. They do seem to have had a surplus of energy coming in to land, however. From the new video it appears that #2 is at least running and #1 might not be. The compressor stall we see in #2 on the video might have been the second one, after #1 got taken out. My guess is that #2 was crippled but turning and landing asap was critical."

3WE: "No, I won't read what others write but I will still criticize them for what I divine they say and for what I divine they don't say"

[LH-B744]

Hm

[LH-B744]

In one video the #2 engine (right) can be seen sputtering a puff of fire and smoke, apparently while on approach (or go around) with the gear apparently up.
Some rumor talking about a failed go-around hence the gear up. Could it be that they forgot to add power? (go around, gear up, flaps 15... Am I forgetting something, why are we not climbing?)

Yes. According to de wiki (for a direct link see above), somebody has seen and even filmed "a flame"

a flame, no idea if that was a real fire with a correct 'engine fire warning' so that the Cpt or his F/O could've had the chance

to use the FIRE extinguisher switch, starboard engine (#2) .

To see why I know that Boeing provides such an extinguisher switch in all B737s (?) and all B744s (!), see my number 54 here in this topic...

Now, what I think what could've happened.

Something went wrong during the approach on the RKJB rwy 01, a stewardess was able to confirm a flame on the starboard engine (#2) from inside the cabin.

And, now you must really believe me, because somebody seems to have deleted that from the asn homepage (!)...

The ADS-B messages concerning this 7C-B738 stopped less than 1.5 nautical miles away South of the RKJB rwy 01.

Which is ... one minute (?) before a 'bird strike' should've occurred on the starboard engine.

Then, the 738 Captain with his 6800 flight hours got panic, loss of 1 engine, 181 souls on board, and this rather short and almost brandnew RKJB airport, open for you and me only since the year 2007. 80 years younger than my home airport.

So, a 738 Captain without deep knowledge about a place on Earth where only 17 years ago (November 2007) one 2800 meter rwy was installed. Before 2007, there simply was NOTHING,
no rwy and no airport!!

And so, this on RKJB unexperienced 738 Captain didn't know that he'd better stayed on the RKJB rwy 01, because the overrun zone on the 01 is SO very much longer than on the 19 ...

Plus, the 01 on RKJB doesn't have such a very inappropriate killer wall where only the ILS antennas sit on top...

So to speak, if this on RKJB unexperienced 738 Captain had stayed on the 01, even with a belly landing, nothing would've happened, all 181 souls survive.

My opinion so far.

[Evan]

Regarding that retaining wall, it is at the end of the overrun (frangible?) and no airport planner can be expected to accommodate a big jet touchdown at the midpoint of the runway. My gut still leans toward the PF not realizing the gear is stowed and not having the means to go around during the long float after nothing touched the runway.

[NYspotter]

Just another thought… wonder if it’s possible…since apparently the jet touched down on the opposite runway 3-4 minutes after the go around instead of initial reported 0007Z/0907L…

they initiated the go around, about to perform the checklist because No. 2 took a bird/compressor stall. Then they pulled No.1 thrust lever instead of No.2, or they shut No.1 down instead of No.2, then they freaked out (because they thought they lost both engines) and landed on 19