Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Jeju Air737-800 Crash at MWX (Muan International Airport, South Korea)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 3WE
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan View Post

    I think we know by now as much as we ever will know.
    Disconcur.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    I think we know by now as much as we ever will know. Maybe forensics can determine the state of either engine at impact. Nevertheless, some important things be learned from it, and possibly done about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Preliminary report is out:



    Not much new (if anything).

    Leave a comment:


  • LH-B744
    replied
    Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
    so i was in the cockpit of a Bombardier C300 and just as we were starting the takeoff roll there was an alarm that i was later told was a configuration alarm which was made possible by the a/c "knowing" it was otherwise configured for takeoff. I ass-ume the 737 has such things. wouldnt there be an alarm of sorts when the a/c is otherwise poised for landing with no gear extended? the logic doesn't appear to be that difficult...
    When the elder (dt.: Stammesältester) starts to tell True Stories about what he's done during the past 25 years... And I very much love it.

    Not everyone is able to tell True Stories with that less accusation ('Don't you know that...' ' You must be stupid so that you don't know that...'), cp. Bob.

    So, Thank You!

    I hope that I am at least somehow in an area which could be true, so, 'older than me', only a rough guess. Because I had to look up the Bombardier C300, which,
    since more than 16 years (since I am here) happens less and less.

    when the a/c is otherwise poised for landing with no gear extended
    Let me understand you correctly. You assume that there is an alarm when a 737 is on final with no gear extended.

    Hm. As we all can see, I am not the perfect partner to answer very specific questions about the 737, cp my avatar.

    We all agree, visual warning is included in all aircraft that we know, 737, 757, 767, 777, 747, 727, 717, Beech B200, ... ... ...... , wait for three greens, and everything is fine.

    As I have added RKJB Muan Intl airport to my p3dv4.5 (01/19 2800 m x 45 m asphalt @ 52 AMSL), I am able to find out if my Beech B200 propeller also sends out an aural warning,
    if on low overpass on the 01, with no gear extended ....

    Don't you p l e a s e never try that in real aviation!

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation


    On Jan 25th 2025 South Korea's Ministry of Transport reported, that at 08:57:50 tower issued a bird activity warning, at 08:58:11 captain and first officer talked about a flock of birds below their aircraft, the recorders stopped at 08:58:50 suggesting that the aircraft lost power possibly because of both engines shut down due to bird strikes. According to ATC recordings (no CVR available, hence no synchronisation was possible) the captain declared Mayday at approximately 08:58:56, the aircraft landed in opposite direction approximately 4 minutes later. Feathers and blood of a type of winter migratory duck were found in both engines. The preliminary report, released to relatives on Jan 25th, is estimated to be made public on Jan 27th 2025.

    Leave a comment:


  • thor
    replied
    Son Chang-wan, the former president of Korea Airport Service, was discovered deceased on the 21st.

    Leave a comment:


  • bstolle
    replied
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    That's interesting! Did you get it from somewhere online you can share?

    I've seen a couple of videos that said that the only requirement was less than (I think) 50ft radalt
    An ex-737 technician told me that the air/ground logic sensor are only active/powered with the gear down.
    Re-checking the air/ground logic system, this doesn't make sense, since the same logic enables GA selection only below 2000ft.

    <10ft

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Originally posted by bstolle View Post
    edited:
    Flaps up through 10 –
    • altitude below 800 feet RA, when either forward thrust lever set between
    idle and approximately 20 degrees thrust lever angle​.......[/quote}
    Thanks

    {quote]While looking for the answer to Gabriels question I noticed that the thrust reversers are inhibited with the gear not locked down.
    This raises the question, why is the #2 thrust reverser open?
    That's interesting! Did you get it from somewhere online you can share?

    I've seen a couple of videos that said that the only requirement was less than (I think) 50ft radalt and the trust levers at idle, but does not require weight-on-wheels or wheels spinning, and showed as "proof' a video of a Rayanair that activated the reversers during the flare, but...
    1) Of course that Rayanair had the gear down, and
    2) I think I once heard that 50ft radalt would allow for idle reverse only (a de-float feature) but beyond idle reverse it required some sort of "on-ground" detection (like weight-on-wheels).

    Both things are relevant to this accident.
    If reverse selection requires gear down and locked then this means that what we see in the Jeju Air video could not be commanded.
    And if beyond-idle reverse requires weight-on-wheels then in means that even if they got the reversers deployed they could not get any meaningful amount of reverse thrust.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Originally posted by bstolle View Post
    edited:
    Flaps up through 10 –
    • altitude below 800 feet RA, when either forward thrust lever set between
    idle and approximately 20 degrees thrust lever angle​.......

    While looking for the answer to Gabriels question I noticed that the thrust reversers are inhibited with the gear not locked down.
    This raises the question, why is the #2 thrust reverser open?
    It could have something to do with landing on them and dragging them down the runway....

    Leave a comment:


  • bstolle
    replied
    edited:
    Flaps up through 10 –
    • altitude below 800 feet RA, when either forward thrust lever set between
    idle and approximately 20 degrees thrust lever angle​.......

    While looking for the answer to Gabriels question I noticed that the thrust reversers are inhibited with the gear not locked down.
    This raises the question, why is the #2 thrust reverser open?

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Originally posted by bstolle View Post
    Rad alt
    That's not a logic, that's an instrument (which by the way we don't know if it was available after the big electrical system failure).

    The logic involves something else, not sure what. But I have seen the horn being triggered when the crew pulled the thrust levers back. And I also have seen the horn NOT being triggered just after take-off while still at low altitude.

    Leave a comment:


  • bstolle
    replied
    Rad alt

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Originally posted by bstolle View Post
    Yes, it does.
    What is the logic or criteria that triggers that horn?

    Leave a comment:


  • bstolle
    replied
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    The typical landing gear horn (which I think would not sound with flaps up)
    Yes, it does.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
    so i was in the cockpit of a Bombardier C300 and just as we were starting the takeoff roll there was an alarm that i was later told was a configuration alarm which was made possible by the a/c "knowing" it was otherwise configured for takeoff. I ass-ume the 737 has such things. wouldnt there be an alarm of sorts when the a/c is otherwise poised for landing with no gear extended? the logic doesn't appear to be that difficult...
    Yes, actually two of them. The typical landing gear horn (which I think would not sound with flaps up) and the GPWS aural warning "Too low - Gear!" which I don't know if it would work with the systems they had left, since I don't know what systems they had left (for example, this alarm requires a working radar altimeter).

    All that said, we have seen over and over that in cases of extreme workload warnings tend not to be heard. In some cases not even that they are heard but ignored, but pilots asking afterwards "why didn't the ZZZ alarm sound?", when it did.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X