Originally posted by Evan
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Jeju Air737-800 Crash at MWX (Muan International Airport, South Korea)
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Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
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Originally posted by TeeVee View Postso i was in the cockpit of a Bombardier C300 and just as we were starting the takeoff roll there was an alarm that i was later told was a configuration alarm which was made possible by the a/c "knowing" it was otherwise configured for takeoff. I ass-ume the 737 has such things. wouldnt there be an alarm of sorts when the a/c is otherwise poised for landing with no gear extended? the logic doesn't appear to be that difficult...
Not everyone is able to tell True Stories with that less accusation ('Don't you know that...' ' You must be stupid so that you don't know that...'), cp. Bob.
So, Thank You!
I hope that I am at least somehow in an area which could be true, so, 'older than me', only a rough guess. Because I had to look up the Bombardier C300, which,
since more than 16 years (since I am here) happens less and less.
when the a/c is otherwise poised for landing with no gear extended
Hm. As we all can see, I am not the perfect partner to answer very specific questions about the 737, cp my avatar.
We all agree, visual warning is included in all aircraft that we know, 737, 757, 767, 777, 747, 727, 717, Beech B200, ... ... ...... , wait for three greens, and everything is fine.
As I have added RKJB Muan Intl airport to my p3dv4.5 (01/19 2800 m x 45 m asphalt @ 52 AMSL), I am able to find out if my Beech B200 propeller also sends out an aural warning,
if on low overpass on the 01, with no gear extended ....
Don't you p l e a s e never try that in real aviation!
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On Jan 25th 2025 South Korea's Ministry of Transport reported, that at 08:57:50 tower issued a bird activity warning, at 08:58:11 captain and first officer talked about a flock of birds below their aircraft, the recorders stopped at 08:58:50 suggesting that the aircraft lost power possibly because of both engines shut down due to bird strikes. According to ATC recordings (no CVR available, hence no synchronisation was possible) the captain declared Mayday at approximately 08:58:56, the aircraft landed in opposite direction approximately 4 minutes later. Feathers and blood of a type of winter migratory duck were found in both engines. The preliminary report, released to relatives on Jan 25th, is estimated to be made public on Jan 27th 2025.
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostThat's interesting! Did you get it from somewhere online you can share?
I've seen a couple of videos that said that the only requirement was less than (I think) 50ft radalt
Re-checking the air/ground logic system, this doesn't make sense, since the same logic enables GA selection only below 2000ft.
<10ft
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Originally posted by bstolle View Postedited:
Flaps up through 10 –
• altitude below 800 feet RA, when either forward thrust lever set between
idle and approximately 20 degrees thrust lever angle.......[/quote}
Thanks
{quote]While looking for the answer to Gabriels question I noticed that the thrust reversers are inhibited with the gear not locked down.
This raises the question, why is the #2 thrust reverser open?
I've seen a couple of videos that said that the only requirement was less than (I think) 50ft radalt and the trust levers at idle, but does not require weight-on-wheels or wheels spinning, and showed as "proof' a video of a Rayanair that activated the reversers during the flare, but...
1) Of course that Rayanair had the gear down, and
2) I think I once heard that 50ft radalt would allow for idle reverse only (a de-float feature) but beyond idle reverse it required some sort of "on-ground" detection (like weight-on-wheels).
Both things are relevant to this accident.
If reverse selection requires gear down and locked then this means that what we see in the Jeju Air video could not be commanded.
And if beyond-idle reverse requires weight-on-wheels then in means that even if they got the reversers deployed they could not get any meaningful amount of reverse thrust.
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Originally posted by bstolle View Postedited:
Flaps up through 10 –
• altitude below 800 feet RA, when either forward thrust lever set between
idle and approximately 20 degrees thrust lever angle.......
While looking for the answer to Gabriels question I noticed that the thrust reversers are inhibited with the gear not locked down.
This raises the question, why is the #2 thrust reverser open?
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edited:
Flaps up through 10 –
• altitude below 800 feet RA, when either forward thrust lever set between
idle and approximately 20 degrees thrust lever angle.......
While looking for the answer to Gabriels question I noticed that the thrust reversers are inhibited with the gear not locked down.
This raises the question, why is the #2 thrust reverser open?
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Originally posted by bstolle View PostRad alt
The logic involves something else, not sure what. But I have seen the horn being triggered when the crew pulled the thrust levers back. And I also have seen the horn NOT being triggered just after take-off while still at low altitude.
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Originally posted by TeeVee View Postso i was in the cockpit of a Bombardier C300 and just as we were starting the takeoff roll there was an alarm that i was later told was a configuration alarm which was made possible by the a/c "knowing" it was otherwise configured for takeoff. I ass-ume the 737 has such things. wouldnt there be an alarm of sorts when the a/c is otherwise poised for landing with no gear extended? the logic doesn't appear to be that difficult...
All that said, we have seen over and over that in cases of extreme workload warnings tend not to be heard. In some cases not even that they are heard but ignored, but pilots asking afterwards "why didn't the ZZZ alarm sound?", when it did.
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