Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

FAA to propose new rules regarding in-flight icing of jet engines

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • FAA to propose new rules regarding in-flight icing of jet engines

    The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the FAA will bring about new safety regulations to better deal with in-flight engine shutdowns caused by icing...

    "On Monday, the Federal Aviation Administration will propose new safety rules that are expected to apply eventually to about 1,200 widebody jetliners world-wide, including Boeing 747 jumbo jets. Pilots of those planes will be required to turn on engine anti-ice systems more frequently during descents, to reduce the chances of sudden shutdowns and to increase the likelihood that engines that quit will restart."

    This is in response to what the FAA and NTSB call "crystalline icing", the ability of tiny ice crystals to get sucked into the engine intakes at high altitude and build up on the interior metal surfaces of the engines. The ice then either breaks loose and can cause damage to the turbine blades, or melts and causes a flameout. This type of internal engine icing is said to be especially problematic for aircraft cruising at altitudes between 25,000-39,000ft or flying near strong storm systems.

    According the article, there has been at least 14 documented incidents of dual-engine flameouts since 2002, and over 100 cases of dramatic power drops or single-engine flameouts since the mid-90s. The shutdowns are temporary, with the engines being restarted and returning to normal operation. In 2005, however, the dual-shutdown of a Beechjet at 38,000ft near Florida resulted in the plane having to "glide" to a landing in JAX. A recent incident involving a three-engine flameout of a Philippine Airlines 747 and a 2006 dual-flameout of a Qatar A330 has led General Electric (who's engines powered both a/c) to work more closely with the FAA to come up with solutions to the problem, above those that the FAA and GE already had in place, such as revisions to the engine software.

    Rolls-Royce and Pratt & Whitney are also working to find solutions. GE says that it's difficult re-creating the conditions that produce this type of icing because little is known about the actual conditions that would cause a flameout to start with.

  • #2
    Anything about 777's at approximately 500/600 feet?

    More or less near LHR?
    Terry
    Lurking at JP since the BA 777 at Heathrow and AD lost responsiveness to the throttles.
    How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth? Sherlock Holmes

    Comment


    • #3
      Those investigating the LHR incident don't believe ice build up inside the engines themselves caused that crash, but rather some sort of ice/slush build up in the fuel or fuel lines, brought about by "unusually frigid" outside air temps during the flight. They can't say for certain because no one fully understands all of the various effects ice can have on airplanes and their engines.

      These new rules by the FAA deal specifically with ice accumulation on the interiors of the engines closer to the combustion section. You think it would be hot enough in that area to eliminate the threat of ice, but they say otherwise.

      Comment


      • #4
        Do engines have anti icing inside the engine? I know they have it on the intakes but didn't know there were anti ice devices after the first fan blade row.
        Signatures are overrated

        Comment


        • #5
          They only have anti-ice systems for the air intake lips. The new rules are supposed to require pilots to leave the systems on during descents from cruise altitude, even if the a/c isn't flying in known or visible icing conditions. This would, I presume, increase the chances of melting any tiny ice crystals that may get sucked into the engine and prevent them from sticking to any parts of the engine's interior that may not be warm enough to prevent ice build up.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by cegro27
            Those investigating the LHR incident don't believe ice build up inside the engines themselves caused that crash, but rather some sort of ice/slush build up in the fuel or fuel lines, brought about by "unusually frigid" outside air temps during the flight. They can't say for certain because no one fully understands all of the various effects ice can have on airplanes and their engines.

            These new rules by the FAA deal specifically with ice accumulation on the interiors of the engines closer to the combustion section. You think it would be hot enough in that area to eliminate the threat of ice, but they say otherwise.
            Strange indeed,
            I thought on modern turbo fans that there is oil circulated inside the front fan blades to keep them cool!

            Comment


            • #7
              You mean warm, don't you...? In any case, I wouldn't know. I suspect the ice is adhering to the stationary points on the engine interior. In fact, they say the ice may even melt and cool the surfaces enough to allow for additional ice to actually stick and build up, until it eventually breaks off and has the effect of causing a power loss or shutdown. As I said before, they don't fully understand the actual dynamics of what's going on with the ice.

              Comment

              Working...
              X