Small plane, helicopter collide over Hudson River

[z740]

NEW YORK – Authorities say a small plane has collided with a tour helicopter over the Hudson River.
Witnesses say the accident happened just after noon between Manhattan and Hoboken, N.J. Both aircraft crashed into the water.
Federal Aviation Administration officials say the plane took off from Teterboro Airport in New Jersey, and that the helicopter was owned by Liberty Tours, a sightseeing and charter company. Officials don't know how many people were aboard the plane, but say there may have been five passengers and one crew member aboard the helicopter.
The Coast Guard says one person has been rescued......

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090808/..._air_collision

-Chris

[P3_Super_Bee]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090808/..._air_collision

-Chris

Fox News has a live stream going on their website right now... No commentary just looks like a camera man on a roof somewhere.

Eurocopter AS3350 and Piper PA32 are reported mishap aircraft.

[Moose135]

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...-52790622.html

The helicopter was from Liberty Tours, which conducts tours of NYC and the harbor, carrying the pilot and five passengers The aircraft was a PA-32R, registered in the Philadelphia area. Reports are it stopped at TEB to pick up another passenger. Reports are one dead.

[P3_Super_Bee]

Notes from Mayor Bloomberg's press conference at approx 3PM EST:

*Aircraft believed to have a Pilot, and 2 pax, one being a child.

*Helo believed to have a Pilot and 5 pax(Italian)

*2 bodies recovered.

*They have found one wreckage and assume its the helo. There are bodies within this.

*Helo took off from west 30th street Heliport.

*Appears aircraft hit helo from aft and side from witness reports.

*Into a Recovery mode vice Rescue.

*No indication of any type of aircraft malfunctions.

*About 2 foot visibility underwater.

[SK907]

It seems to be this helicopter from Liberty.. http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.p...6577094&nseq=1

[P3_Super_Bee]

LINK to a video from Fox News with pictures just after the collision.

[AVION1]

Probably the Cherokee pilot was distracted doing something....it appears he hit the helicopter from behind

[P3_Super_Bee]

LINKto Fox News Photos from an eyewittness.

[AVION1]

I assume from this picture, the helicopter pilot never knew what hit him...

[Evan]

That corridor is WAY too crowded. In the last five years it has gotten completely out of control thanks to emperor Bloomberg and his vision of NYC as a playground for rich euros. The Hudson is like a helicopter freeway. I've often sat out on the pier and wondered when (not if) something like this would happen.

I met a young helo pilot at a party a couple years back. He was flying AS150's for Liberty. He planned to get his multi-engine fixed-wing license and transition to corporate jets. His girlfriend was going to be his flight attendant. I hope he did.

[Evan]

Here we go again. Your MO is fairly predictable, Evan. Wait for a crash. As soon as it becomes reasonably safe to assume that some issue or other was involved - usually because it is widely reported by the media or simply because it is glaringly obvious - latch onto it and make it your own cause. Find a greedy corporation or a hapless government agency to blame. As soon as people start asking more probing questions, such as why the issue - seemingly so apparent - has been allowed to persist, rather than considering the complex underlying causes, the practical considerations, the inability of anyone to foresee all possible contingencies, etc. etc., you just keep pounding away that this should never have been allowed to happen, and that there is one quick and absolute fix to prevent it from ever happening again.

There is a lot of busy airspace in the U.S., and the ominous predictions of inevitable midair collisions have been around a long time. But by practicing good procedures, and learning from the crashes that have occurred along with the near misses, we seem to have kept the busiest of airports reasonably safe. The question here is what procedures were in place, how could this have happened on a perfectly sunny day, and then to learn from this, and improve the system. No one wants to see an aircraft to crash, ever.

Thanks for MOing me. I guess I've never posted anything well-researched and factually valuable have I? Never. I just keep pounding away. Man, what am I thinking, stating my concerns and sharing my research about aviation safety on an aviation safety forum? Typical case of pounding away.

Well, forget me. Lets see what an actual helo pilot flying the corridor has to say about it:

You have to be supremely vigilant in that corridor. It's summertime, and it's busy. You've got to have your head on a swivel, looking around," said Brian Alexander, a helicopter pilot and lawyer for the Manhattan aviation firm Kreindler and Kreindler.

Sure, but that's probably just his MO speaking.

Now read this:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08092009...ies_183698.htm

Now go down to pier 19 and watch that heli-carnival for a bit yourself, and tell me what a reactionist I am. Maybe it's not dangerous if nothing goes wrong, but there's little room for the inevitable fact that something will. By the way, the Hudson river is not an airport. There's no ATC.

[Evan]

Actually, I have agreed with your point of view and defended your posts several times in the past. I don't necessarily disagree that there is an issue with volume of traffic here, either. It's just that I feel another crusade coming on. My point about busy airspace is that with good procedures, volume of traffic in and of itself has not inevitably proven disastrous, and my example was America's busiest airports, which despite dire predictions, have turned out to be reasonably safe.

The issue I have with the Hudson river is that there is heavy traffic moving in opposing directions at a common flight level in a corridor less than a mile in width. And this traffic is sharing the corridor with other traffic moving at higher speeds at nearby altitudes. Not to mention that this corridor runs parallel to one of the most densely populated urban areas in the country. If I showed you an airport approach plate like that you would think it was crazy. Honestly, some times it looks like Blade Runner up there. Now, I ask you, what happens when a ship loses control? Exactly this. And why has this question never been seriously addressed until now? Because we are trapped in a 'won't-happen-again' system of aviation safety regulation.

Then there is unregulated capitalism at work. There's money to be made. More choppers mean more business. Supply must be increased to meet demand. In NYC, business does not regulate itself. I've watched over the years as the helo traffic has multiplied alongside the Bloomberg agenda. It has been allowed to overgrow the margin of safety.

So five Italian tourists had to die and now public opinion will force overdue regulations that will make this industry safer. Yes, I'm part of that 'crusade'; I admit it.

[guamainiac]

I tend to ignore most of the comments in rags like the NY Post or the Daily News and the sparkling analysis by the food vendor is worth it's weight in ...

However, they did have a comment by local pilot Robert Case and he mentions ...... "most beautiful scenery in the world" regarding the temporary flight ban after 9/11 and within that comment is probably the clue to incidents like the Cory Lidel crash over on the East River or the current one on the Hudson.

The ......... "Gee Whiz" factor is overwhelming to a pilot just passing through and the Empire State building, Chrysler and other skyscrapers...... or seeing the Statue of Liberty emerge from the grey summer haze .... the Piper pilot was (possibly), in that state of awe that that view will bring.

Note also, that the tour helo was grey and may have blended in with the summer haze and smog that are so common this time of year in that area so it didn't pop out like ....... bright white ..... or some other high visibility color may have.

Another ..... and I'll try not to fall off the "armchair" and hit too hard .... several news stories have reported that the pro pilots in the area announce when they are at/over a few key areas. Two of those were the Holland and Lincoln tunnels. That in itself is quite telling! A local or true pro who flies that sector every day would know what the the other pilot was calling out regarding location but, I mean, calling out a tunnel that runs under water .... holy cow ... it's not like the George Washington Bridge, the entry to those tunnels are blocks inland and are not what I would call "significant visual landmarks".

Regarding the Lidel incident ... I've always had a feeling that he was pointing out Yankee Stadium to his instructor (or trying to find it) ... and that factored into his lack of awareness of location and drift.

Before you "diss" my simple guesswork, didn't Langewiesche in his intro to "Stick And Rudder" make some reference when asked why he flew airplanes make some comment like ...... "To see" ...... admit it; we have all been taken in (distracted) by the view at some time or other?

[P3_Super_Bee]

Well said.

!A wanna be or true pro .

You have this everywhere... I changed your term "local" to wanna be. In the Navy, the big thing for pilots is "I'm not a Pilot, I'm a Naval Aviator" Well guess what The Navy has Pilots and Naval Aviators, and the jackasses complaining they aren't a pilot but an aviators are usually the Pilots. A real Aviator knows he's not perfect, knows he's not the king of the world because he has wings, knows he doesn't know everything, knows how to take his mistakes and learn from them, he is someone who has the goal of of flying that perfect flight from pre-flight to post-flight, but knows that because he is human he probably will never make that flight. Its the jackass that thinks he knows everything, can't learn anymore, can't be tought anything more. He's the one that is lucky everytime he gets in the seat and gets out of it alive. He's most likely the one that will be in the next mishap.

[guamainiac]

Lockheed P-3's you say? Yep, we had a few of them fancy new things around with the VQ-1 crowd over at NAS Agana.

Me, I just spent my time with tires and lock wire. sweaty and foul while we beat the RA 3Bees into submission.