Malaysia Airlines Flight 124 Boeing 777 ADIRU incident

[Schorsch]

Well the "accuracy" of the uTube "thing" is based on the mute animation provided by the ATSB based on FDR data (just turn off volume).
.

OK, thanks , then it should be pretty good. I initially thought someone had used his own little flight simulator.

[ATFS_Crash]

That’s some scary stuff.

Pardon my ignorance on this type of aircraft. The failure of auto brake mentioned in the report; is that wheel brake, or the air brake, or perhaps a combination?

Thanks for posting the video at YouTube.

[3WE]

Paging Gabriel.

Are there implications of nose-up attitudes and low power?

NO, they mean nothing becuase a plane can be stalled at any airspeed and attitude and power setting.

Point up to go up...

Turn on the FMS, couple to Autopilot.

Don't touch anything else.

[Schorsch]

That’s some scary stuff.

Pardon my ignorance on this type of aircraft. The failure of auto brake mentioned in the report; is that wheel brake, or the air brake, or perhaps a combination?

Thanks for posting the video at YouTube.

Automatic braking at landing. As autobrake uses deceleration infos from IRU, it will be inop when these units fail. No big thing.

[Gabriel]

Paging Gabriel.

Are there implications of nose-up attitudes and low power?

NO, they mean nothing becuase a plane can be stalled at any airspeed and attitude and power setting.

Point up to go up...

Turn on the FMS, couple to Autopilot.

Don't touch anything else.

And what are they supposed to do? Lower the nose? The plane would loose altitude for God sake!

(There!)

[3WE]

And what are they supposed to do? Lower the nose? The plane would lose altitude for God sake!

(There!)

Nose up, slow speed, low power, mushy feelings, nose blocking teh horizon, buffets, stall warnings, positive Gs.

IF YOU SEE THESE SORTS OF THINGS ABSOLUTELY DO NOT EVER EVEN MOMENTARILY THINK, "Wow I wonder if I should lower the nose a little"

Those thoughts belong to stupid parlor talking light plane pilots. Professionals know better.

[Gabriel]

Those thoughts belong to stupid parlor talking light plane pilots. Professionals know better.

3WE, I feel we should include the disclaimer that we are joking (or making fun of certain breed of "professionals").

Some "professionals" might take us seriously, follow our advice, hold the nose in a "stally" situation, and kill people (themselves included).

Ok, not that they are not already doing it from time to time, even without our advice.
- Let's four-one-oh it
- Colgan
- The iced 737 over the bridge
- Several flapless take-offs, including but not restricted to the 2 MD-80s
- The Turkish 737
- You might want to include the AA DC-10 taking off from O'Hare
- Austral DC-9, opposite case, low airspeed indication, the plane is at normal cruise attitude and power and constant cruise altitude -i.e. nowhere close to stall-, the crew however matches "low airspeed" with "stall" and apply full throttles, push nose down, and extend slats (still with a WRONG low airspeed indication, they were way overspeeding, bye-bye slats)
- This Malaysia B777
- Air france?

[aardvark2zz]

I love the fact that the auto-throttle kept turning on and idling the engines; because the Auto-throttle arm switch(es) were left on (and possibly some other reasons).

[Schorsch]

Ok, not that they are not already doing it from time to time, even without our advice.
- Let's four-one-oh it
- Colgan
- The iced 737 over the bridge
- Several flapless take-offs, including but not restricted to the 2 MD-80s
- The Turkish 737
- You might want to include the AA DC-10 taking off from O'Hare
- Austral DC-9, opposite case, low airspeed indication, the plane is at normal cruise attitude and power and constant cruise altitude -i.e. nowhere close to stall-, the crew however matches "low airspeed" with "stall" and apply full throttles, push nose down, and extend slats (still with a WRONG low airspeed indication, they were way overspeeding, bye-bye slats)
- This Malaysia B777
- Air france?

- Birgen Air B757
- [you never know how many Airbus crews unintentionally tested their alpha protection, more than commonly expected]

[Schorsch]

I love the fact that the auto-throttle kept turning on and idling the engines; because the Auto-throttle arm switch(es) were left on (and possibly some other reasons).

Was a bit surprised that the Autothrottle is such a die-hard mechanism. Tries to stay connected. Reminds me a bit of the A300/310 autopilot system, which liked to stay connected even when the pilot grabbed the controls.

In today's Airbus any serious control input will immediately disconnect the A/P.

As I said: good pilots are trained to switch off ALL automation and take-over control whenever something looks strange. Never go half-automated in funny situations > HOTAS!

[AndyToop]

HOTAS!

I thought at airbus the o is for OFF

[W7PSK]

I love the fact that the auto-throttle kept turning on and idling the engines; because the Auto-throttle arm switch(es) were left on (and possibly some other reasons).

If you know about how the Auto throttles work you would see the big HINT there.

Its in SPEED Mode, meaning the throttles control to MCP speed
The A/T is engaged meaning its controlling the throttles
the MCP Speed is .4 MACH, what speed is .4 mach at 40K.

They should have .82 mach selected.

looks to me like a crew got behind the airplane, they should have disconnect the A/T (and Looked at the MCP). Not sure what the heck they were doing.

Not having all the data, I cannot say further (and prolly might not anyway).

[aardvark2zz]

This plane flies very well, at least the aerodynamics.

If you look at the video starting at 1:20 and for 45 secs the plane stalls on and off and yet the roll and pitch is pretty stable -- minimal stick input is required; even with erratic computer output to some control surfaces.
.

[Schorsch]

This plane flies very well, at least the aerodynamics.

If you look at the video starting at 1:20 and for 45 secs the plane stalls on and off and yet the roll and pitch is pretty stable -- minimal stick input is required; even with erratic computer output to some control surfaces.
.

With a gentle deceleration all transport aircraft have a nice stall behavior. It becomes worse when
- the stall is entered very quickly
- it is coupled with large control deflections, especially lateral
- for underwing engines, applying full power may worsen the situation as a large pitch-up moment develops.

The problem was avoidable and crew action worrying.