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Another 787 Fire this time at LHR

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  • Evan
    replied
    Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
    Do you blindly believe all "journalism" or are you just na´ve? I don't see a third option here.
    Well, if you don't see it, then there's nothing to see here, right?

    Of course mistakes are made everywhere, but this doesn't sound like a mistake. It sounds like hasty, aloof workmanship. Think about it: crossed wiring, with the cover jammed on top of it. Is that a mistake, or is that rushed carelessness? Does the long-standing tradition of pride-of-workmanship at Puget Sound beget such carelessness? It seems unlikely to me.

    There has been some reputable reporting on how Boeing outsourced 70% of the 787 production chain and enlisted some inexperienced labor in its Charleston, South Carolina assembly plant. In bringing the 787 to market, Boeing outsourced to 50 companies in 11 countries. The Seattle TImes reported that machinists at the 787 assembly plant in Everett, Washington, reported receiving fuselages with wiring and hydraulic lines missing. Budget and scheduling overruns undoubtedly exerted pressure along a vast, three-tiered supply chain. I'm guessing the ELT wiring was done outside of Boeing's facilities, perhaps across the world, but who knows...

    There's quite a story here if you want to open your eyes to it. I just hope it ends with these not-fatal incidents.

    Leave a comment:


  • ATLcrew
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan View Post
    I assume you haven't seen the journalism on Boeing's outsourcing standards. Cramming some crossed wired into a battery compartment? That doesn't sound like Seattle-style workmanship.
    Do you blindly believe all "journalism" or are you just na´ve? I don't see a third option here.

    Leave a comment:


  • guamainiac
    replied
    Many out-sourced jobs involve the use of a mechanic or technician who is not certified; what few articles I have seen on this indicate that they have "oversight" by a certified individual.

    Even my military certs would not have passed muster with the requirements.

    Most of the airlines did their maintenance and repair in Kansas in the 60's and 70's and those were a proud lot of mechanics.

    Leave a comment:


  • elaw
    replied
    Are you honestly saying that workers in Seattle are incapable of making mistakes?

    Granted, my opinion and probably yours too is that workers in a certain other country whose name begins with "C" and ends with "hina" have a reputation for making mistakes more frequently than workers in the USA (depending on the context and who you ask).

    But that does not mean US workers or workers anywhere else have a mistake rate of zero.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
    I don't know if this was an outsourced job or not, but shoddy work can be done in Seattle just as easily, don't you worry. Or worry a lot, I dunno.
    I assume you haven't seen the journalism on Boeing's outsourcing standards. Cramming some crossed wired into a battery compartment? That doesn't sound like Seattle-style workmanship.

    Leave a comment:


  • ATLcrew
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan View Post
    Shoddy outsourcing no doubt. I'm guessing this wasn't done in Seattle.
    I don't know if this was an outsourced job or not, but shoddy work can be done in Seattle just as easily, don't you worry. Or worry a lot, I dunno.

    Leave a comment:


  • elaw
    replied
    Originally posted by Highkeas View Post
    The LHR fire fighting crew had difficulty in finding and fighting this fire...
    You make a fair point, and it's certainly sensible to consider accessibility when designing aircraft systems for a variety of reasons.

    But it's not reasonable to expect that every small item in an aircraft that could start a fire can be located in 30 seconds. This just as well could have been an electronic device in someone's luggage, buried under 50 other pieces of luggage in the middle of a cargo hold.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    It was identified early in the investigation that ELT battery wires, crossed and trapped under the battery compartment cover-plate...
    Shoddy outsourcing no doubt. I'm guessing this wasn't done in Seattle.

    Leave a comment:


  • Highkeas
    replied
    The LHR fire fighting crew had difficulty in finding and fighting this fire.
    The report says this about the crew and an inflight ELT fire (Page 39):

    25) In the event of an in-flight ELT battery fire, detecting the fire and
    locating its source would be challenging for cabin crew, due to the
    inaccessible location of the ELT in the cabin.
    26) In the event of an in-flight ELT battery fire, fighting the ELT fire and
    any subsequent structural fire would be challenging for cabin crew
    due to the inaccessible location of the ELT in the cabin.

    And from page 42:
    The cabin crew would then have to stand on a seat, or an
    arm-rest, to aim a fire extinguisher at the source of the fire.


    In my opinion the ELT has design deficiencies and inadequate quality assurance provisions (e.g. A post assembly x-ray or n-ray inspection could possibly detect the trapped and crossed wires).

    The report says (page 1:
    "Despite the degree of damage observed, the fuselage skin had not been
    breached by the fire."

    But would the skin be breached at flight level due to pressure differential? Especially considering empennage forces.

    It seems to me that the ELT access and/or location needs to be improved (not just for safety but also maintenance).

    [As an aerospace engineer reports such as this make me aware of design and QA issues with applicability to other applications.]

    Leave a comment:


  • elaw
    replied
    Yep:
    Originally posted by AAIB report
    It was identified early in the investigation that ELT battery wires, crossed and trapped under the battery compartment cover-plate, probably created a short-circuit current path which could allow a rapid, uncontrolled discharge of the battery. Root Cause testing performed by the aircraft and ELT manufacturers confirmed this latent fault as the most likely cause of the ELT battery fire, most probably in combination with the early depletion of a single cell
    Sounds like whoever installed the battery couldn't spend the extra 5 seconds necessary to ensure the wires were positioned properly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Highkeas
    replied
    AAIB Report

    AAIB report released today
    https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/airc...p-12-july-2013
    I've not read it yet but reportedly fire caused by short circuit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Highkeas
    replied
    From today's AIAA newsletter

    UK Aviation Agency Says Faulty Wiring Likely Led To Dreamliner Fire.
    Reuters (6/18, Scott) reported that the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) said on Wednesday that the July 12, 2013 fire aboard a Boeing Dreamliner at London Heathrow Airport was likely caused by faulty wiring in a locator beacon, which resulted in an uncontrollable discharge from a battery. The AAIB issued five recommendations that the FAA could integrate in regards to lithium batteries on aircraft, which echoed comments that the NTSB made in May.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alessandro
    replied
    Back into the air, http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...repair-394401/

    Leave a comment:


  • Alessandro
    replied
    Ethiopian maybe gets a xmas gift, http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...istmas-394089/

    Leave a comment:


  • Highkeas
    replied
    Originally posted by Highkeas View Post

    Repairs nearing completion
    http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/awx_11_26_2013_p0-640968.xml

    Leave a comment:

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