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Malaysia Airlines Loses Contact With 777 en Route to Beijing

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  • I suppose they could install a system that requires both pilots to enter a code to disable/isolate the transponders. But the more sensible solution is to focus on a system that prevents one pilot from locking the other out of the cockpit. It's simply a matter of giving each his own private unlock code.

    Another level of defense would be a third transponder that squawks the hijack code activated by a panic button in the passenger cabin. This would also register in the cockpit so it could also be used to alert the crew that a hijacking is taking place in the pax cabin (but fused in the pax compartment with a dedicated battery a la the FDR's).

    It doesn't take but a tiny bit of imagination to find these solutions. Unfortunately the industry often lacks even that.

    And of course ongoing pilot screening and mental fitness assessments are the key issue here. A person who takes a planeload of passengers to their death is far from mentally balanced and should exhibit signs of mental stress to a trained interviewer.

    Comment


    • not sure mental stress is what you would look for. there is also religious beliefs, suicide+i just don't give a shit, suicide+i wanna go out with a bang and be remembered, and countless other causes.

      screening may catch a guy like the jetblue pilot that cracked but it won't catch everyone.

      Comment


      • Was there ever a point where Malaysia worried about a replay of 9/11 with Kuala Lumpur's biggest building as the target? As I recall, Al Qaida originally planned hijackings from South East Asia, a plot discovered in Manila. What would make MORE sense than an attack on Malaysia itself? I'm expecting someone to respond with a fact I don't know or haven't thought of. Remember, these guys hate Muslims, too. Sometimes more than any other religion.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
          (...)I get the impression that someone deliberately made this aircraft disappear, I feel that is likely a form of terrorism whether it is linked to a terrorist organization or not.
          I agree with the first part of the statement, but I think we should be very careful about the use of the term "terrorism". The way I see things concerning MH370, this is not terrorism, i.e. an act of violence committed to promote a political goal. (That's MY definition of terrorism.)

          Originally posted by ATFS_Crash
          (...)I think it would be a fallacy to try to label something like this a suicide. In my book, anyone that kills innocent lives in the process of taking their own life; is a MURDERER.
          In my opinion, this is splitting hairs. Calling someone who commits suicide and in the event takes innocent people with him/her a murderer doesn't add anything to the discussion. It only would be a helpful distinction if the suicide attempt was unsuccessful and there were
          still innocent casualties. Then, you could put the perpetrator on trial as a murderer. As long as he/she is dead with the rest of them, a change of label won't change any facts.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
            Was there ever a point where Malaysia worried about a replay of 9/11 with Kuala Lumpur's biggest building as the target? (...)
            Well - I think any country with spectacular highrises is worried to some point but as far as I know, there hasn't been any particular worry in Malaysia, and why would there be? After all, Malaysia is not a prime target.

            Comment


            • Interesting commentary on the Voice Recordings released Thursday may have been " edited" .

              http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...370-was-edited

              EDIT: The comment section over there is just loaded with delicious theories ....

              Comment


              • For those asking for more effective aircraft tracking rules, here's something they sent to their stakeholders:

                Dear CRT user,

                please note that the commenting period of NPA-2013-26 "Amendment of requirements for flight recorders and underwater locating devices" expired on 20 Mar 2014.

                According to Article 8.1. of the EASA Management Board Decision No 01-2012, there is no reaction period foreseen; the related Comment-Response Document will be published together with the Opinion or Decision.

                Best regards The EASA CRT Team
                So far it's just a 190-page proposal, you can view it here: http://easa.europa.eu/document-libra...ts/npa-2013-26

                While EASA is pretty receptive to detail changes requested by their stakeholders, the basic strategy is typically kept.
                Last edited by Traumflug; 2014-05-05, 19:13. Reason: Grammar, formatting

                Comment


                • P.S.: I'm wondering a bit why they sent this out now, some 6 weeks after closing the commenting period. Is it possible they received a plethora of additional comments in face of the MH370 disappearance?

                  Comment


                  • Nothing to see here folks... 200 Nigerian girls who were abducted three weeks ago are now the STORY. Move along ....

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by mcm View Post
                      jealous...
                      +2.

                      Where are the a/c that were present on my homeairport when my parents were born (in the late 1940s)? I like a movie that contains such a rare machine:
                      "The Flight of the Phoenix" (2004), with Dennis Quaid, Giovanni Ribisi and Hugh Laurie.

                      A Fairchild C-119 (yob 1947).

                      Apart from that, all EDDL enthusiasts know that
                      A Junkers Ju 52 (first year of sale 1932)
                      was a long year member of one of our observer decks....

                      But that answer seemed to easy for me...

                      Back on topic. Such a topic is not answered within 6 months (cp AF447). Like with the AF-A332, we'll have to show patience.
                      Last edited by LH-B744; 2014-05-06, 22:27. Reason: +rare machines. + patience.
                      LH and the Hamburg - Düsseldorf - Shannon - NYC route, open since June 1st, 1955. A/C type: Lockheed Super Constellation.
                      LH is member in the 747 club since April 1970. Jubilees do count, believe me.
                      Aviation enthusiast since more than 30 years.

                      Comment


                      • Is there a chart anywhere that shows in-flight air traffic between say GIVAL and Vietnam at 1:19:00 around the time that 370 disappeared?

                        Comment


                        • In absence of any trace of MH370 I am starting to become a bit philosophical about the whole matter. Not finding any trace of the missing airplane when pouring on all those assets, in this year 2014 is weird.
                          Here´s some fuel to the forum bonfire. Maybe it will put some energy back in the thread..

                          If nothing turns up in the search area within "reasonable time" whatever that may be deemed to be, would it then be reasonabe to say that they were looking in the wrong place, either misled by false or wrongly interpreted data, or worst of all, presumption-?

                          Then there are at least two (well maybe three) scenarios which have been completely discounted, and should warrant further investigation:

                          1) Following the northern arc of the antenna diagram of Inmarsat (the reverse course to the one investigated) Now, assuming that the 'plane turned south after passing across the Malay peninsula alludes that someone was still in control which would be relying on the terrorist or suicide theory. There has been many ideas offered to support this and likewise conversely to discount that possibilty. In any event, if the comms equipment /transponder/ACARS were in fact shut down by human hand then that would support the planned and deliberate diversion. If so they could have gone north. It may only need a sign error or two (+ instead of-) in one of the Inmarsat calculations (using doppler shift as its source of data input) to send the posse in the wrong direction.

                          2) Looking in the area where the 'plane disappeared in the first place, ie where the last course change was recorded. Following the theory that an oxygen fed cockpit fire like the Cairo T7 accident occured with MH370 would somehow lessen the likelihood that the 'plane made all those maneuvers and flew on until fuel exhaustion. That would in my opinion call for a thorough sonar scan investigation of some part of the seabed in the area of the last known position. "Where did you lose it? Have you looked there-?"

                          3) The total lack of debris which is almost unheard of in the history of over-the-water air accidents is very disturbing. There are too many bits of buoyant material in that cabin which should have either been on the surface when the air search was on, or ended up on beaches somewhere. That leads me to wonder if the 'plane never ditched at all.
                          There is so much jungle in the surrounding countries, well within fuel range. There may be completely different forces in motion here, such as hijacking and diversion into areas still not considered, hence unsearched, either followed by a crash or an accidental downing by any country's air defence, airborne or land based. The latter would never be admitted to unless a wreck was found with evidence to prove it. As to disappearing in the jungle, remember how little was seen of the wreckage of GOL 1907 after the mid air collission in Brazil in 2006-?

                          As a mental sidetrack, for all of you who have a conspiratory mindset, let's say we are being purposely led away from the crash site, for reasons of a darker nature-? Looking at the expense for the ongoing search, it would certainly go down in history as one of the largest and most expensive hoaxes.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Passion for flying View Post
                            ................
                            ............. would it then be reasonabe to say that they were looking in the wrong place, either misled by false or wrongly interpreted data, or worst of all, presumption-?
                            .....................
                            The one missing piece od data is the ground speed of the aircraft, The search locations were based on assumed ground speed. I guess they took best and worst speeds and compared those to the several ACARS ping tracks. This leads to a very large search area (not to mention including route followed after the last ping ).

                            I heard a report (a week or so ago) that said the data was being examined again including by some new analysts. I've said before that the JPL should take a look since they are use Doppler shift to determine spacecraft speed and distance.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Passion for flying View Post
                              In absence of any trace of MH370 I am starting to become a bit philosophical about the whole matter. Not finding any trace of the missing airplane when pouring on all those assets, in this year 2014 is weird.
                              Here´s some fuel to the forum bonfire. Maybe it will put some energy back in the thread..

                              If nothing turns up in the search area within "reasonable time" whatever that may be deemed to be, would it then be reasonabe to say that they were looking in the wrong place, either misled by false or wrongly interpreted data, or worst of all, presumption-?

                              Then there are at least two (well maybe three) scenarios which have been completely discounted, and should warrant further investigation:

                              1) Following the northern arc of the antenna diagram of Inmarsat (the reverse course to the one investigated) Now, assuming that the 'plane turned south after passing across the Malay peninsula alludes that someone was still in control which would be relying on the terrorist or suicide theory. There has been many ideas offered to support this and likewise conversely to discount that possibilty. In any event, if the comms equipment /transponder/ACARS were in fact shut down by human hand then that would support the planned and deliberate diversion. If so they could have gone north. It may only need a sign error or two (+ instead of-) in one of the Inmarsat calculations (using doppler shift as its source of data input) to send the posse in the wrong direction.

                              2) Looking in the area where the 'plane disappeared in the first place, ie where the last course change was recorded. Following the theory that an oxygen fed cockpit fire like the Cairo T7 accident occured with MH370 would somehow lessen the likelihood that the 'plane made all those maneuvers and flew on until fuel exhaustion. That would in my opinion call for a thorough sonar scan investigation of some part of the seabed in the area of the last known position. "Where did you lose it? Have you looked there-?"

                              3) The total lack of debris which is almost unheard of in the history of over-the-water air accidents is very disturbing. There are too many bits of buoyant material in that cabin which should have either been on the surface when the air search was on, or ended up on beaches somewhere. That leads me to wonder if the 'plane never ditched at all.
                              There is so much jungle in the surrounding countries, well within fuel range. There may be completely different forces in motion here, such as hijacking and diversion into areas still not considered, hence unsearched, either followed by a crash or an accidental downing by any country's air defence, airborne or land based. The latter would never be admitted to unless a wreck was found with evidence to prove it. As to disappearing in the jungle, remember how little was seen of the wreckage of GOL 1907 after the mid air collission in Brazil in 2006-?

                              As a mental sidetrack, for all of you who have a conspiratory mindset, let's say we are being purposely led away from the crash site, for reasons of a darker nature-? Looking at the expense for the ongoing search, it would certainly go down in history as one of the largest and most expensive hoaxes.
                              You are assuming that If nothing turns up in the search area within "reasonable time" whatever that may be deemed to be, then maybe they were looking in the wrong place.

                              Maybe, but also maybe:

                              4- The plane was 50 feet beyond the boundary of the searched area.
                              5- The plane hit the water at supersonic speed and practically vaporized at impact. There are millions of tiny fragments down there, mostly covered with sediments, with a few isolated bigger parts (a black box here, a turbine disk there...) that are not outstanding enough to stand out in the sonar images. And there were thousands of tiny fragments floating up there, many of them absorbed water and sunk before they started to look in this place (which was what? two weeks after the crash?). Some of them were still floating there but too small and already to widespread to be visually detected. A few of them might someday show up as flotsam in some shore and, maybe be eventually found and, if remarkable enough, maybe analyzed and identified as belonging to MH370.

                              There were not too many, but it would not be the first case of an airplane disappearing without traces.

                              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                              Comment


                              • 5- seems to defy known physics?

                                4- beyond the boundary of the search area ... yes indeed, as per the "4 ping thing" and how credible those are which is right back to square one. Hard to believe that no outside credible (as they can be), agencies have seen the "hard data" to verify any reasonable possibility they served as a valid base to establish such an extensive search?

                                Where is Eddie "Wrong Way Corrigan" when we need him?
                                Live, from a grassy knoll somewhere near you.

                                Comment

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