Malaysia T7 down!!

[Peter Kesternich]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28431943

(...)
It's a briefing by US intelligence officials that's left many scratching their heads.

Since the crash, officials in Washington have been playing up Russian's involvement in attacking the plane. Secretary of State John Kerry in particular pointed the finger of blame firmly at Moscow and said evidence would be produced very soon. That's what was expected.

But while senior intelligence officials said Russia had "created the conditions" for the plane's shooting down, there was, as yet, NO evidence of the direct involvement of the Russian government. They said that while it's likely separatists brought down the Malaysian Airlines plane… it was by mistake.

So why would the White House want to wind down rhetoric, in the way it appears to many it has? It could be around the difficult question about what to do with Russia if there IS evidence it was directly involved. It is, after all, a country heavily involved in international diplomatic efforts regarding Iran, Syria, and North Korea, and a country a lot of Europe relies on for its gas.

For the White House, the question of how to put enough pressure on President Putin to stop his country backing rebels and undermining Ukraine's sovereignty, is still, very clearly, a troubling one.

US intelligence officials, speaking anonymously at a press briefing on Tuesday, said the "most plausible explanation" for the shooting down of the plane was that rebels mistook it for another aircraft.

"Five days into it, it does appear to be a mistake," one of the officials said.

(...)

They went on to say that Russia was responsible for creating the conditions that led to the crash.

"It's a solid case that it's a SA-11 that was fired from eastern Ukraine under conditions the Russians helped create," one official said.

However, there was no direct evidence of direct Russian involvement in the firing of the SA-11 surface-to-air missile believed to have caused the crash, the officials said.

Nor did the US know that the Ukrainian rebels possessed SA-11 missiles until after the plane was shot down, the officials added.

The officials said that their findings were based in part on social media postings and video released in recent days.

(...)

The emphasis is mine...

I already suspected that this was the way this whole thing would play out.

[mfeldt]

I'd have another question that can be answered maybe without having to wait for anything:

In the Malaysian times is mentioned that Kiev ATC confirmed having lost contact with MH17 to Malaysian Airlines at 17:15 local time.

How long would that usually occur after the contact was indeed lost? How long for the retries? How often is the airline usually actually asking ATC whether contact is still established? Or would that mean that ATC informed the airline before that contact was possibly lost?

[sjwk]

BBC currently reporting two "breaking news" stories: (so no actual content yet):

• Two Ukrainian fighter jets shot down by pro-Russian separatists in east, defence ministry in Kiev says
  
• UK government sources say there is evidence Ukraine rebels scattered parts of other aircraft at MH17 crash site

What 'other aircraft'? Is this to make out that maybe there was another plane (possibly involved in an air-air collision?)

[retox]

Published June 30, 2014

Look what was known 18 days BEFORE MH17.


"Gen. Philip Breedlove, head of U.S. European Command, confirmed that anti-aircraft weapons were part of the armed support being provided by Moscow to separatist groups fighting in eastern Ukraine.Along with the weapon deliveries, Breedlove also said that training missions being carried out by Russian forces along the eastern Ukrainian border included the use of vehicle-borne anti-air missiles."

http://news.usni.org/2014/06/30/u-s-european-commander-russia-supplying-anti-aircraft-weapons-ukrainian-separatists

[Jpmkam]

Condition of cockpit wreckage:

The cockpit of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 which was shot down over Ukraine has been found sawn in half, it has been claimed.
International monitors, who only recently gained access to the site, discovered the cockpit of the plane apparently cut in half with diesel-powered saws.

Michael Bociurkiw, spokesman for the group of international monitors from the Organize for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), told USA Today: 'The rear part of the aircraft, one of the biggest intact pieces, has definitely been hacked into'.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz38IidUMwD
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Black Ram]

Another version of the downing of MH17 was presented/implied by the Russian Ministry of Defense. They claim there was another aircraft that was airborne at the time, and that it was a Ukrainian SU-25.

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/mh17-show-tell-its-wests-turn.html

The Su-25 has an empty service ceiling of 7000m, and fully loaded with weapons, it would be 5000m (MH 17 was at FL330, 11000m). It can carry the R-73 air-to-air missile, but it can't reach MH17's height. This is very interesting, because one of the first rumors from Russian media was that civilians saw an Ukrainian "ground attack aircraft" chase/shoot down MH17. The ground attack aircraft was later identified as an SU-25.

Russian sources also claim there were Ukrainian operated SA-11 missile systems in Donetsk, even though that's rebel territory.

[AVION1]

Please be careful about bringing up obscure aviation journalists from obscure aviation magazines here.

I agree 100%. Specially from FoxLiesNews....!

[Jpmkam]

Ukraine rebel leader confirms for the first time that Russian separatists did have BUK anti-aircraft missiles.

A powerful Ukrainian rebel leader has confirmed that pro-Russian separatists had anti-aircraft missiles of the type Washington says were used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine last Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system.

He also indicated that the BUK may have originated in Russia and could have been sent back to remove proof of its presence.

'I knew that a BUK came from Luhansk. At the time I was told that a BUK from Luhansk was coming under the flag of the LNR,' he said, referring to the Luhansk People's Republic, the main rebel group operating in Luhansk, one of two rebel provinces along with Donetsk, the province where the crash took place.

'That BUK I know about. I heard about it. I think they sent it back. Because I found out about it at exactly the moment that I found out that this tragedy had taken place.

'They probably sent it back in order to remove proof of its presence,' Khodakovsky said.

U.S. intelligence officials today said Russia did bear 'responsibility' for the downing of Flight 17 but they offered no evidence that Vladimir Putin was directly involved.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz38K9FQPKD

[retox]

A very compelling piece on the US not sharing intelligence with Ukraine.

"U.S. intelligence agencies now have detailed information that Russia has amassed the kind of forces needed for a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. But the Obama administration hasn’t shared with Ukraine the imagery, intercepts, and analysis that pinpont the location of the Russian troops ready to seize more Ukrainian land, The Daily Beast has learned.

President Obama has repeatedly and publicly expressed solidarity with the Ukrainian people—and warned Russian leader Vladimir Putin that there will be consequences if he takes over any more Ukrainian territory. Yet Obama’s administration has so far been reluctant to hand over the kind of intelligence the Ukrainians could use to defend themselves..."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/08/exclusive-u-s-won-t-share-invasion-intel-with-ukraine.html

[retox]

And another discussing the US refusal to supply missile jamming technology. US gov't simply doesn't trust Ukraine.

"...According to a former senior U.S. defense official who has worked closely with Ukraine’s military and a former head of state who has consulted with the government there, Kiev last month requested the radar jamming and detection equipment necessary to evade and counter the anti-aircraft systems Moscow was providing the country’s separatists."">Those anti-aircraft systems were almost certainly used to*shoot down MH17, the Malaysian air passenger jet shot out of the sky last Thursday. U.S. officials have*pointed the finger at Russia*for providing that equipment, though no final assessment has been made of culpability for the incident...."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/23/exclusive-ukraine-asked-u-s-for-tech-to-counter-russia-s-jet-killers.html

[Jpmkam]

A very compelling piece on the US not sharing intelligence with Ukraine.

"U.S. intelligence agencies now have detailed information that Russia has amassed the kind of forces needed for a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. But the Obama administration hasn’t shared with Ukraine the imagery, intercepts, and analysis that pinpont the location of the Russian troops ready to seize more Ukrainian land, The Daily Beast has learned.

President Obama has repeatedly and publicly expressed solidarity with the Ukrainian people—and warned Russian leader Vladimir Putin that there will be consequences if he takes over any more Ukrainian territory. Yet Obama’s administration has so far been reluctant to hand over the kind of intelligence the Ukrainians could use to defend themselves..."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...h-ukraine.html

That article was way back in April. Who knows what the current information sharing is.

[Jpmkam]

And another discussing the US refusal to supply missile jamming technology. US gov't simply doesn't trust Ukraine.

"...According to a former senior U.S. defense official who has worked closely with Ukraine’s military and a former head of state who has consulted with the government there, Kiev last month requested the radar jamming and detection equipment necessary to evade and counter the anti-aircraft systems Moscow was providing the country’s separatists."">Those anti-aircraft systems were almost certainly used to*shoot down MH17, the Malaysian air passenger jet shot out of the sky last Thursday. U.S. officials have*pointed the finger at Russia*for providing that equipment, though no final assessment has been made of culpability for the incident...."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...t-killers.html

In that article this also quoted as to the reason of concern:

One U.S. defense official who spoke to The Daily Beast on condition of anonymity said any Ukrainian request for jammers and other electronic warfare technology would be met with some skepticism. “These are highly sensitive systems, we don’t trust Ukrainian military folks on this,” this official said. (The Ukrainian military is believed to be thoroughly penetrated by Russian intelligence.)

[retox]

That article was way back in April. Who knows what the current information sharing is.

Either the story is true and did/do not fully trust Ukraine (probable) or this was planted/fabricated as a way of distancing the US from what was happening so as not to further inflame relations with Putin (possible). There is so much bullshit coming out about this, it's hard to know what to believe.

[Jpmkam]

No tampering detected in MH17 CVR:

Air crash investigators have been able to download 'valid' information from the flight MH17 black box cockpit voice recorder.

The Dutch Safety Board which is leading the investigation into the Malaysia Airlines tragedy said an international team of investigators, working in Hampshire, had conducted a thorough examination of the cockpit voice recorder (VCR) .

In a statement the board said: 'The CVR was damaged but the memory module was intact.

'Furthermore no evidence or indications of manipulation of the CVR was found.

'Following the examination, the CVR data was successfully downloaded and contained valid data from the flight.

'The downloaded data have to be further analysed and investigated.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz38KudTRek

[Jpmkam]

Investigation team make-up being led by the Dutch Safety Board:

It added that it would coordinate a team of 24 investigators from Ukraine, Malaysia, Germany, the United States, Britain and Russia, as well as the International Civil Aviation Organisation. –

Reuters, July 24, 2014. -

See more at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/m....Bglz6u2G.dpuf