Malaysia T7 down!!

[Evan]

Looks like it's getting time for me to unsubscribe from this thread. There is nothing more to discuss. Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was shot down accidentally by a surface-to-air missile. Those responsible have not yet figured out for themselves who is going down for that. The aviation industry is reconsidering its practice of flying over war zones at high altitude.

Exactly. The only 'aviation safety' recommendation I can see here is 'don't overfly war zones where any combatant MIGHT have medium-range AA defenses'. There's nothing else to learn or discuss and I'm sure the investigation and flight recorders will reveal nothing of value beyond that realization.

[Peter Kesternich]

Looks like it's getting time for me to unsubscribe from this thread. There is nothing more to discuss. Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was shot down accidentally by a surface-to-air missile. Those responsible have not yet figured out for themselves who is going down for that. The aviation industry is reconsidering its practice of flying over war zones at high altitude.

[Northwester]

If the Russians fighting in Eastern Ukraine had nothing to hide, they would have granted international investigators full access to the crash site from day one.

"Kiev junta"? Really? This is taken straight from the Russia Today propaganda tube.

[Black Ram]

And Russia has the "nashism" (нашизм) movement.

I really don't see how Ukraine can be ruled by a "fascist junta" when there is a law that allows any ethnic group that comprises 10% of a given region to have its own official language. It's a very recent law (2012) that was obviously passed for political (instability) reasons. It was a law that the provisional Kiev government tried to repeal, causing an uproar on pro-Russian media. Little attention is given to the fact their attempt was stopped by the provisional president...

Now, do you want to talk about the Tatars and how they were expelled from the Crimea?


Anyway, as this is only sort-of relevant, and I don't want to piss off anyone, I would just ask you this - do you think the "junta" can shoot down an airliner in a war zone right next to the Russian border (and actively supported by the Putin regime), and mighty Russia will not have any evidence they can present?

[Peter_K]

There were no fascist in Ukraine.

[quote]he All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda. The party was founded in 1991 as the Social-National Party of Ukraine (Ukrainian: Соціал-національна партія України) and acts as a populist proponent of nationalism and anti-communism. It is positioned on the right of the Ukrainian political spectrum,^{[2][10][11][12]} and some scholars classify them as far right.^{[4][13][14][15]} Scholars and journalists disagree over Svoboda's politics, some stating members of Svoboda are fascistic or anti-semitic. Svoboda also pushed neo-Nazi and other radical groups out the party,^[108] distancing itself from its neofascist past while retaining the support of extreme nationalists.


Right Sector (Pravy/Pravyy Sektor) is a Ukrainian nationalist political party that originated in November 2013 as a paramilitary confederation at the Euromaidan protests in Kiev, where it provided logistical support and tactical leadership.^[1] Founding groups included Trident (Tryzub), led by Dmytro Yarosh and Andriy Tarasenko; and the Ukrainian National Assembly – Ukrainian National Self-Defense (UNA–UNSO), a political/paramilitary organization.^[2][3][4] Other founding groups included Patriot of Ukraine,^[4] the Social-National Assembly, Carpathian Sich, and White Hammer. Hammer was expelled in March 2014.^[5] Academic and media sources describe some of Right Sector's constituent groups as neo-fascist

[brianw999]

MODERATION HAT ON.....

Peter_K
Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 259

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Ram
So we have the Kiev junta fighting Russian-speaking Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine.......or more like Russian-speaking Russians from Russia.
it's always good to read up on some history. Did you know that Kiev for centuries was a Russian city?

Today, 09:47 PM #380
Black Ram
Member

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 241

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_K
it's always good to read up on some history. Did you know that Kiev for centuries was a Russian city?

And for some time so was Warsaw. And the western part of Poland was Germany, the Eastern one was Prussia, and Belarus and Western Prussia were Eastern Poland. And Istanbul was once called Constantinople and it was a Greek Byzantine city.

Your point?

.........None of which has any relevance to the topic ! Put the toys back in the box please and play nicely.

MODERATION HAT OFF.

[Black Ram]

I did not know that Ukrainian Fascists have so much support on this site

Listen, "smart arse". Just because I don't support Putin's propaganda, it doesn't mean you can call me a "fascist supporter".

First, "fascist" is what Russians call anyone who does not support their blatant lies. There were no fascist in Ukraine. There was a corrupt president who decided to bowl down to Putin and then ran away to Russia, where he referred to his own country in third person - "Ukraine is our strategic partner" - do you want a link?
Let me also remind you the first people to die in the Ukraine crisis after the Maidan were peaceful Ukrainians, protesting in favor of Ukraine's territorial integrity (to which Russia is a cosignatory). Who's the fascist?

So if you're going to spread Putin's crap here, you better stay clear of me, because I am more than adequately informed of what is going on. Igor Strelkov - Russian, from Moscow, complaining there are not enough supporters for his cause. What the fuck is he doing in a sovereign state setting up a civil war?

By the way, Putin is a moron (or a CIA agent ). Just look at his friends - North Korea, Iran, Venezuela. He managed to piss off some pretty neutral countries, like Sweden, and now Holland. Again, watch Holland's reaction to this, as well as Australia's and Malaysia's as well.

[Black Ram]

it's always good to read up on some history. Did you know that Kiev for centuries was a Russian city?

And for some time so was Warsaw. And the western part of Poland was Germany, the Eastern one was Prussia, and Belarus and Western Prussia were Eastern Poland. And Istanbul was once called Constantinople and it was a Greek Byzantine city.

Your point?

[Peter_K]

So we have the Kiev junta fighting Russian-speaking Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine.......or more like Russian-speaking Russians from Russia.

it's always good to read up on some history. Did you know that Kiev for centuries was a Russian city?

[Peter_K]

What do you think would be on these tapes that isn't on the MH17 CVR?

I don't know what's on them, that's the point. For sure the CVR would not have a record of phone calls made between various ATC centers, which may, or may not be important to the investigation. It is a part of evidence, which should not be ignored in the early stage of the investigation. I asked a simple question, which would require a simple reply. Instead I got a reply from a bunch of smart arses attacking me for simply asking it. I did not know that Ukrainian Fascists have so much support on this site. And why send an armed commando to retrieve them?

[TheKiecker]

Jpmkam,

Looks like 30mm bullet holes to me in your picture.

Im not buying Surface to Air.

[Black Ram]

a) Military conversations wouldn't be on civilian ATC tapes.

b) Can a Su-25 intercept a highflying civilian aircraft with a radar-guided missile? As far as I know the Su-25 is a ground-attack fighter, similar in specs to the A-10, and would fly slower and lower than a 777.

I was being sarcastic. But no, I don't think the Su-25 can reach FL330, at least not easily.

On a serious note, what are the chance to be able to target a 777 with an IR missile, especially from the front. Would those high bypass engines make it more difficult? Not that I believe it could have been the Su-25, just curious.

[Peter Kesternich]

Instructions to an Ukrainian "interceptor" (SU-25) to proceed

a) Military conversations wouldn't be on civilian ATC tapes.

b) Can a Su-25 intercept a highflying civilian aircraft with a radar-guided missile? As far as I know the Su-25 is a ground-attack fighter, similar in specs to the A-10, and would fly slower and lower than a 777.

[Jpmkam]

Airlines divided over crossing Iraq after MH17 crash.

A split has emerged between airlines about whether it is safe to fly over war-torn Iraq, after Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was downed in Ukraine.

British Airways and Etihad Airways are among those continuing to fly passenger jets over Iraq, while Air France and Virgin Atlantic have stopped doing so. Emirates Airline also plans to halt the practice while Qantas, which has been passing over, on Saturday announced it was suspending flying over Iraq.

Many aircraft flying between European and Asian cities pass over Iraq, where the government is fighting jihadis led by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, known as Isis, which controls much of the north and west.

The conflict has prompted US regulators to order the country's carriers to fly higher above the country "due to the potentially hazardous situation". The Federal Aviation Administration told US carriers on Thursday night to fly above 30,000ft in Iraq, having previously instructed them to keep above 20,000ft.

Willie Walsh, chief executive of International Airlines Group, parent of BA, said on Friday: "We fly over Iraq because we consider it safe - if we thought Iraq was unsafe we would not fly over Iraq."

However, he admitted that it may be "confusing" for passengers trying to understand why airlines had adopted different positions on Iraq.

Mr Walsh said airlines should conduct their own risk assessments to decide whether to fly over conflict zones because they have different operations and aircraft.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101889467#.

[Black Ram]

What do you think would be on these tapes that isn't on the MH17 CVR?

Instructions to an Ukrainian "interceptor" (SU-25) to proceed