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  • Black Ram
    replied
    Originally posted by Peter_K View Post
    Anybody knows if the Kiev junta handed over to the investigators the ATC tapes its troops confiscated from the Ukrainian ATC provider at gun point minutes after the crash?

    So we have the Kiev junta fighting Russian-speaking Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine.......or more like Russian-speaking Russians from Russia. Igor Strelkov - that rebel leader with the mustache - is from Moscow, and he has complained about lack of support for the "opposition" (I suppose to the "junta" ).

    To answer your question, I will not trust something if it is being spammed from Russian media, RT, Alex Jones and other conspiracy sites. When Holland, Australia or Malaysia say something, then I'll believe. So far I see Holland, a more neutral EU state, getting very pissed off at Russia and becoming one of the strongest supporters for sanctions.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peter Kesternich
    replied
    Originally posted by Peter_K View Post
    Let's try to keep politics as much as possible away from this thread. So..., are they still withholding this crucial to the investigation piece of evidence?
    What do you think would be on these tapes that isn't on the MH17 CVR?

    Leave a comment:


  • Peter_K
    replied
    Let's try to keep politics as much as possible away from this thread. So..., are they still withholding this crucial to the investigation piece of evidence?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jpmkam
    replied
    Originally posted by EconomyClass View Post
    I must be tuned out. What is the "Kiev junta"?
    Me too.

    Leave a comment:


  • EconomyClass
    replied
    I must be tuned out. What is the "Kiev junta"?

    Leave a comment:


  • Peter_K
    replied
    Anybody knows if the Kiev junta handed over to the investigators the ATC tapes its troops confiscated from the Ukrainian ATC provider at gun point minutes after the crash?

    Leave a comment:


  • EconomyClass
    replied
    If the rebels weren't the shooters, they should have instantly got international inspectors in and given them everything. Anybody remember the investigation after Vincennes shot down that plane over Iran?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jpmkam
    replied
    Video shows possible recreation of MH17 crash,

    WASHINGTON, July 29, 2014 – The black boxes from MH 17 have been reviewed and decrypted in Britain and Associated Press releases a video showing a possible scenario for the crash of MH17.

    This possible conclusion is that the rocket did not necessarily hit the plane, but that shrapnel from an exploding missile peppered the aircraft’s thin outer covering, causing it to depressurize the plane, rendering passengers and crew unconscious.

    The aircraft quickly descended, broke in half and crashed in the Ukrainian field, leaving a 15 kilometer debris field.

    Following the release of the video, comments have ranged from “we know what happened, now what are we going to do about it?” to a more expansive “That conclusion is simply ignorant. The time of useful conscious at FL350, is 30-60 seconds. For a rapid depressurization, the time is approximately half that, or 15-30 seconds. It takes less than five seconds for an aircrew member to recognize a rapid depressurization and don the ever-present oxygen mask.”

    “Furthermore, the aircraft is always trimmed or on autopilot while at cruising altitude. Thus, MH17 was not downed because the pilots lost consciousness during a rapid depressurization as the result of fragmentation from a missile warhead. It’s far more likely the fragmentation either killed or incapacitated them directly, severed key control systems, or otherwise creating a situation of uncontrollable flight.”

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  • Jpmkam
    replied
    "This Photo Tells Us A Lot About How MH17 Was Shot Down" - DAVID CENCIOTTI, THE AVIATIONIST




    Photos taken at the MH17 crash site clearly show shrapnel signs on various parts of the wreckage of the Boeing 777 shot down over eastern Ukraine while en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur with 298 people on board.

    Among all the images published on media outlets from all around the world, though, the one first published by Financial Times over the past weekend struck our attention.

    The piece of wreckage, reportedly measuring 1 square meter, has a couple of distinctive features that may help the identification: the colored stripes of the Malaysia Airlines livery and the bolts of the cockpit side windshield.

    Based on these details, with the help of our contributor Giuliano Ranieri, we identified (and obviously we were not the only ones) the piece as a chunk of front fuselage located next to the cockpit (slightly below it), on the left-hand side of the plane.

    The piece has several burn marks, a large central hole and several smaller puncture marks surrounding it. The edges of the small holes seem to be bent outward, evidence of something that got out of the skin from the inside of the plane.

    This is a sign the missile, most probably fired by an SA-11 system according to almost all reports to date, equipped with a proximity fuse, detonated on the right side of the aircraft not too far from the nose, scattering several fragments of shrapnel so fast that they traversed the plane from side to side: they entered through the right side of the airframe and got out from the left one.

    Furthermore, considering the number of puncture marks concentrated at the base of the cockpit windows we can assume both pilots were invested by high speed, hot shrapnel that most likely did not give them time to realize what was going on.



    Read more: http://theaviationist.com/2014/07/24...#ixzz38cR3aR5M

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  • Jpmkam
    replied
    Black box analysis:

    Data from the black box points to a "massive explosive decompression," with the plane's fuselage getting hit by shrapnel from the explosion.

    This is consistent with a photo of a piece of the plane's wreckage that shows obvious signs of shrapnel damage, according to The Aviationist. The missile likely detonated on the right side of the plane, sending shrapnel clear through the aircraft, eventually shooting out of the left side.



    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/mh17-...#ixzz38cQEZhWj

    Leave a comment:


  • AVION1
    replied
    I was looking at those "missile damage" and they look to me that they were done by compressor blades flying around, rather than "missile shrapnel".
    Take a look at this picture


    Leave a comment:


  • AVION1
    replied
    A cargo container almost intact.

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  • Northwester
    replied
    Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post
    Do you have sources for this information? All of this is incredibly likely.
    All the information is from different media outlets, some of them quoting Ukrainian Intelligence sources. One of the separatists was interviewed by Corriere della Sera where he was talking about searching for the Ukrainian pilots.

    Leave a comment:


  • AVION1
    replied
    A new field of debris found today near Grabovo:

    Leave a comment:


  • Leftseat86
    replied
    Originally posted by Northwester View Post
    There are several facts about this crash that have been confirmed with a high degree of probability. The BUK M1 launchers came from Russia with trained crews. It is not likely that the so called "separatists" operated the BUKs. It takes several months of training to learn how to use them. Besides, intercepted radio traffic confirmed that the vehicles came with the crews. It is true that the launch vehicles came without the command and target acquiring radar vehicles so they did not have the capacity of determining if the target is friend or foe, but their command units could have been on the Russian side providing all necessary information. On the previous shootdowns, the air traffic controllers from Donbas were providing information to the separatists about the air traffic. It is possible that it was accidental, but it is equally possible that it was a deliberate action. The separatists got a warning 2 minutes before the missile launch that the "bird" was approaching. There were other airliners crossing that area shortly before, as well above 320 level. And Russian airspace border was closed several hours before the crash. The BUK M1s are equipped with decent tracking radars, so it is hard to believe that a professional crew would not distinguish an airliner flying at 33,000 feet from a smaller transport plane flying at the half of this altitude. But I am not discarding the possibility of an accident. There was a patrol dispatched minutes after the crash to catch Ukrainian pilots that supposedly parachuted from the plane.

    I am attaching 2 screen shots from Russian air traffic monitoring from July 17, 13:19:02 showing MH17 at 330. And a pic with air traffic paths over Ukraine.
    Do you have sources for this information? All of this is incredibly likely.

    Leave a comment:

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