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  • Drones

    so, how long before we see a major catastrophe as a result of some jackass flying a drone?

  • #2
    Interesting question.

    I'm thinking the risk to an airliner is small-not saying zero, but I think it will generally be a matter of wiping the scratches off the airliner with a rag... though I could see pricy engine replacement happening too.

    But that recent deal of a firefighting helicopter holding back while drones took pictures.....

    ...makes me wonder if there won't be some black box wizardry such as a universal kill frequency or built in altitude restrictions???
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    • #3
      minimal risk? i wonder what would happen if an engine ingested one of the larger drones. i know they are designed to withstand ingestion of birds but some of the readily available drones are a bit heavier, not to mention some of them are powered by combustible fuels.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
        minimal risk? i wonder what would happen if an engine ingested one of the larger drones. i know they are designed to withstand ingestion of birds but some of the readily available drones are a bit heavier, not to mention some of them are powered by combustible fuels.
        I doubt that the damage would be worse than ingesting a few geese.

        The engine will likely fail, but it should not be a great risk for the integrity of the plane. Remember an engine is designed to ingest not only large birds but also its own metal alloy large and heavy fan blades. With "designed to" I don't mean that the engine is designed to survive these events, but to fail in a way that the damage is contained within the engine only.

        And by "larger drones" I assume you are still talking about the largest hobby/GoPro quadcopters, not a Predator or the like.

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
          I doubt that the damage would be worse than ingesting a few geese.
          Geese can weigh between two and three times as much as the larger GoPro equipped drones out there. And thus far drones do not flock. Like geese, the danger lies more in a drone strike becoming the first step in a larger error sequence. Shutting down the wrong engine for instance. Or a drone shattering a radome that takes out the air data sensors. So the risk needs to be taken very seriously. We don't like surprises up there.

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          • #6
            Just a matter of time

            Lufthansa at Warsaw

            http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...source=twitter

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            • #7
              It is a high risk! And of course there are not only big 747 or A380 in the air!!!

              Some years ago there was an accident between a small RC-model and a motor-glider SF25. The SF25 hit the modell with the wing and the wing was cut of!

              And everybody is talking about engines. A bird-strike in the windshield is much more dangerous.
              During my military-time I talked to a German Tornado-Pilot who had this bad experience a long time ago! He had a lot of luck that the bird did not killed him because the bird went through the glass and hit his shoulder not the complete helmet! So he was able to land the aircraft!

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              • #8
                Personally I find the technology and it's easy availability to the world of terrorism very worrying. They can carry quite a payload, easily enough Semtex to make a very big bang.
                If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Evan View Post
                  Geese can weigh between two and three times as much as the larger GoPro equipped drones out there. And thus far drones do not flock. Like geese, the danger lies more in a drone strike becoming the first step in a larger error sequence. Shutting down the wrong engine for instance. Or a drone shattering a radome that takes out the air data sensors. So the risk needs to be taken very seriously. We don't like surprises up there.
                  For the record, I am taking this risk very seriously, and people doing this intentionally should be charged with homicide attempt, or manslaughter attempt if not intentional.

                  I was merely answering TeeVee's question: "i wonder what would happen if an engine ingested one of the larger drones".

                  And my answer, "I doubt that the damage would be worse than ingesting a few geese", includes all the potentially nasty, direct and indirect, effects of ingesting geese, like the ones you mention.

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Soaring1972 View Post
                    And everybody is talking about engines. A bird-strike in the windshield is much more dangerous.
                    I doubt it. Modern cockpit windows are tested for bird-strike capability. I don't think a 5lb drone is going to do much harm, especially since the slipstream would probably carry it over the surface rather than allow a full-force impact. Maybe an outer layer facture, but nothing catastrophic.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Evan View Post
                      I doubt it. Modern cockpit windows are tested for bird-strike capability. I don't think a 5lb drone is going to do much harm, especially since the slipstream would probably carry it over the surface rather than allow a full-force impact. Maybe an outer layer facture, but nothing catastrophic.
                      .....unless it's loaded with half a kilo of Semtex and an impact trigger.
                      If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                      • #12
                        I don't think a 5lb drone is going to do much harm, especially since the slipstream would probably carry it over the surface rather than allow a full-force impact.
                        Did you ever had a birdstrike or drone-strike or whatever?
                        I had! There was no slipstream or other phenomenas which prevent the bird hitting my aircraft! Luckily it only hit the landing gear with probably 70 kts


                        nice videos on youtube:

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiFVUpERC4Q

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlDWCDnXZ2k

                        And if you think such a drone-hit would be not realy dangerous ask yourself if you would make a simple self-test:
                        Drive your car with 150 miles per hour and see what hitting a 5lbs drone will do with your car

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                        • #13
                          talking about what engines and aircraft are designed to withstand is a whole bunch of fun. but let's think back to not so very long ago when two buildings designed to withstand impacts from aircraft were felled by said impacts--one of which was allegedly calculated to be well under the impact force of a 707 (what the design criteria supposedly was).

                          this forum has plenty of instances where the holes lined up just so and crap happened.

                          tell you what, i don't wanna be on board when what i believe to be inevitable occurs....

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                            ... 1) this forum has plenty of instances where the holes lined up just so and crap happened.

                            2. tell you what, i don't wanna be on board when what i believe to be inevitable occurs....
                            1) Yes.

                            2) Neither do I

                            Then again I don't want to be in board for a thunderstorm penetration which though BB never does, we saw that trashed 747somewhat downplayed by our pros.

                            Nor do I want to be on board for a goose strike or a Sully landing, nor a visit to renowned buildings built by Western Infidels...

                            Nor do I want to be on board a 747 climbing out on a hot night with old wires and the perfect residual fuel sloshing in the main tank.

                            The risk is not zero, I do see added regulations, but my bet (possibly wrong) is no drone caused airliner crashes until at least three more unconscionably relentless pull up and stall crashes, but maybe before the next random fuel tank explosion...

                            Not sure where the next Sully double goose incident fits in.
                            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Soaring1972 View Post
                              Did you ever had a birdstrike or drone-strike or whatever?
                              I had! There was no slipstream or other phenomenas which prevent the bird hitting my aircraft! Luckily it only hit the landing gear with probably 70 kts
                              Well, unless it was stalling at the time, I'm guessing it wasn't a large transport category aircraft. The FARS are as follows:

                              25.631 The aeroplane (all structure, including windshield) must be designed to assure capability of continued safe flight and landing of the aeroplane after impact with a 4 lb bird when the velocity of the aeroplane (relative to the bird along the aeroplane’s flight path) is equal to Vc at sea-level or 0·85 Vc at 2438 m (8000 ft), whichever is the more critical.

                              Vc being design cruise speed.

                              The majority of consumer drones are 4lbs or less.

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