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Plane crash at Shoreham, UK airshow.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by AVION1 View Post
    I guess he ejected from the airplane
    I have seen several videos and I don't see him ejecting, maybe the cloud of smoke and debris is hiding this.
    If he to survives and recovers to the point of being able to defend himself, he should be prosecuted for involuntary murder or manslaughter.

    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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    • #17
      BBC says he was pulled from the wreckage.

      I've read somewhere that the plane broke apart on impact so he might have been away from the main fire.

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      • #18
        photos in the daily rag today showed the cockpit section away from the main fire
        Regards,
        Darryl

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        • #19
          It s being reported here in the USA that the death toll is at least eleven. Sad outcome.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Highkeas View Post
            It s being reported here in the USA that the death toll is at least eleven. Sad outcome.
            Yes, death toll is now officially eleven. The road and the scene remain closed for today and possibly tomorrow while accident investigation continues. The possibility of more victims being found has not been ruled out.
            If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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            • #21
              Me thinks this could be the tipping point for all future air displays...

              10nm ON GROUND no go zone for all public around airshows (excepting paying customers)
              No aircraft older than nn years to perform stunts
              Pilot must have xx rating/hours on type to perform stunts
              No flying lower than n hundred feet

              etc., etc.

              I loathe the 'nanny state', but none of the 11 dead (so far) deserved any of this

              VAZ

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              • #22
                Originally posted by vaztr View Post
                Me thinks this could be the tipping point for all future air displays...

                10nm ON GROUND no go zone for all public around airshows (excepting paying customers)
                No aircraft older than nn years to perform stunts
                Pilot must have xx rating/hours on type to perform stunts
                No flying lower than n hundred feet

                etc., etc.

                I loathe the 'nanny state', but none of the 11 dead (so far) deserved any of this

                VAZ
                My red, bold type will effectively kill off all air displays, including coastal displays such as Eastbourne etc.
                If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                • #23
                  Airshows don't need to be this dangerous...if you watch the video and see the low altitude at which he began his loop it's obvious this was an extremely poor decision. This is very much like the Thunderbirds crash in Montana in which the pilot used MSL instead of AGL altitude when planning his loop maneuver and didn't have enough room to pull out of it...luckily that was performed over the middle of the airfield and not over the perimiter with a busy highway as was the case here. Very bad decision making from the pilot...

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                  • #24
                    I mean the guy started to pull into his loop at what must have been between 100-200ft off the ground...just ridiculous...

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post
                      Airshows don't need to be this dangerous...if you watch the video and see the low altitude at which he began his loop it's obvious this was an extremely poor decision. This is very much like the Thunderbirds crash in Montana in which the pilot used MSL instead of AGL altitude when planning his loop maneuver and didn't have enough room to pull out of it...luckily that was performed over the middle of the airfield and not over the perimiter with a busy highway as was the case here. Very bad decision making from the pilot...
                      This raises a question. There is a minimum 500 feet altitude restriction over people and structures.

                      The pilot looked to be at about 200 feet Above Ground Level (and in the case of Shoreham also Above Mean Sea Level as the airfield is just 7 feet AMSL.)

                      The aircraft came from North Weald which is 321 feet AMSL.

                      321 + 200 = 521 feet.

                      So....did the pilot make a fatal mistake with his altimeter setting ? The Air Accident Investigation Branch will no doubt be paying a lot of attention to the altimeter/s
                      If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                        This raises a question. There is a minimum 500 feet altitude restriction over people and structures.

                        The pilot looked to be at about 200 feet Above Ground Level (and in the case of Shoreham also Above Mean Sea Level as the airfield is just 7 feet AMSL.)

                        The aircraft came from North Weald which is 321 feet AMSL.

                        321 + 200 = 521 feet.

                        So....did the pilot make a fatal mistake with his altimeter setting ? The Air Accident Investigation Branch will no doubt be paying a lot of attention to the altimeter/s
                        Yes Brian, assuming he had a correct altimeter setting when departing North Weald, when he began his maneuver at Shoreham he would have had an altimeter reading around 200 ft...which should have been sounding alarm bells for him if he saw it. And a casual glance out the window would have made it obvious he was well below 500ft. The only way he could think he was at 500 from the altimeter would be if he had an incorrect altimeter setting from the start. This is a basic mistake too.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                          This raises a question. There is a minimum 500 feet altitude restriction over people and structures.

                          The pilot looked to be at about 200 feet Above Ground Level (and in the case of Shoreham also Above Mean Sea Level as the airfield is just 7 feet AMSL.)

                          The aircraft came from North Weald which is 321 feet AMSL.

                          321 + 200 = 521 feet.

                          So....did the pilot make a fatal mistake with his altimeter setting ? The Air Accident Investigation Branch will no doubt be paying a lot of attention to the altimeter/s


                          To some extent, this is a no-win scenario...many airshow crashes happen when there's a control surface failure...so if you are higher, it's that much easier to veer off into the crowd.

                          I also don't like to hear "The pilot made a bad decision"(Not_posted by Brian)...That gives the implication the dude is saying, "I formally and in full knowledge, decide to make this loop 300 feet too low"...

                          Yeah, sure, bad call, but there's usually something much more insidious afoot...with comfort, complacency and "everything looks great just like it always does" often being part of the equation.

                          As to restrictions...yeah, I know of a couple recent Blue Angel shows where the turn outs are done over very populated areas...yeah, safety margins are good, but then again, there's a reason you don't make more than 60 degree banks and 30 degrees of pitch for "plain old operations".
                          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Leftseat86 View Post
                            Yes Brian, assuming he had a correct altimeter setting when departing North Weald, when he began his maneuver at Shoreham he would have had an altimeter reading around 200 ft...which should have been sounding alarm bells for him if he saw it. And a casual glance out the window would have made it obvious he was well below 500ft. The only way he could think he was at 500 from the altimeter would be if he had an incorrect altimeter setting from the start. This is a basic mistake too.
                            Surely he would have re-set his altimeter to local/regional QNH settings 2-3 times during the run down from North Weald to Shoreham.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by HalcyonDays View Post
                              Surely he would have re-set his altimeter to local/regional QNH settings 2-3 times during the run down from North Weald to Shoreham.
                              That is what is supposed to happen.....but did it happen ?
                              If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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                              • #30
                                UK's aviation regulator announces "significant restrictions" on vintage jets in air displays after Shoreham crash
                                http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34044383

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