Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

BA777 Fire KLAS

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    NPR is the new CNN:

    Pilot Of Burning British Airways Jet Says 'I'm Finished Flying'

    (Uh, yeah, he was already scheduled to retire next week and simply decided to forgo his last two flights while this incident is under investigation.)


    Talk about licking the plate clean... et tu NPR?
    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...ntent=20150910

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
      - I can tell you that I would have been guilty of NOT complying with the instructions of the crew.
      What I love is "remain seated with your seat belts fastened". Why the seat belts? Is the plane going anywhere? Will there be turbulence? It tells me at that moment that I am dealing with a mindless bureaucracy. And meanwhile I'm feeling a very distinct rise in temperature as the old aluminum tube conducts the heat of that fire very efficiently. And then a whiff of toxic smoke. Sorry, cabin crew, I've lost faith in bureacracy. Instinct has taken over. I'm going to move towards the nearest safe exit.

      Comment


      • #78
        Bad news for Gabriel: NTSB is referring to this as an "engine fire": http://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-relea...R20150910.aspx



        Perhaps the best term would be "engine-initiated fire"?
        Be alert! America needs more lerts.

        Eric Law

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Evan View Post
          What I love is "remain seated with your seat belts fastened". Why the seat belts? Is the plane going anywhere? Will there be turbulence? It tells me at that moment that I am dealing with a mindless bureaucracy...


          ...arguably, what's wrong with sitting there, seatbelts fastened, with your hand on the buckle...

          I don't see that that would cause any significant delay when it becomes clear (or is ordered) that you need to evacuate.

          Given that airline stuff is all about one-in-a-zillion odds, who says tires won't burst or the wing won't fall off (or explode) which could cause the plane to lurch and cause one of the 300 passengers to have a sprained ankle, trapping 20 people behind them who die of smoke inhalation...

          Just saying it's not totally stupid AND NOT AN ADDED RISK to keep the belts fastened... (per the written, well-thought-out, well-rehearsed, specific, memory-checklist procedures).
          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by elaw View Post
            Bad news for Gabriel: NTSB is referring to this as an "engine fire": http://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-relea...R20150910.aspx



            Perhaps the best term would be "engine-initiated fire"?
            I think we should refer to it as "engine-failure and fire". /word mincing
            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by 3WE View Post
              I don't see that that would cause any significant delay when it becomes clear that you need to evacuate.
              If the image in the video, or even more the view out of the window a couple of rows ahead of the video guy, doesn't qualify for "clear that you need to evacuate", I don't know what does.

              Now... it is not just "open the nearest exit and jump into the fire or a running engine". But they had 4 very secure doors to start the evacuation. You know "two at the front and two at the back" (with the normalized hand signal).

              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                But they had 4 very secure doors to start the evacuation.
                6?

                The delay was about two minutes after stopping (according to witness accounts). That must have seemed like a lifetime to the passengers but like a few moments to the flight crew trying to assess the situation from the front. They sent the relief pilot back to have a look. I'm sure they were looking at a fire indication but have no way to know it was uncontained (other than both squibs not extinguishing it).

                But the cabin crew could clearly see it was time to get out (and not remain seated with your seat belt fastened). They probably should not have waited for the captain's order to begin the evacuation. That's where the bureaucracy comes in.

                Comment


                • #83
                  This actually raises an interesting question. Once a jet engine is shut down, I wonder how much time must elapse before it's safe to walk in front of or behind it? I'm sure it's some number of seconds, but how many seconds could be important depending on the circumstances.
                  Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                  Eric Law

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by elaw View Post
                    Bad news for Gabriel: NTSB is referring to this as an "engine fire": http://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-relea...R20150910.aspx
                    Uncontained catastrophic engine failure. There's no cockpit button for that.

                    Originally posted by 3WE
                    Just saying it's not totally stupid AND NOT AN ADDED RISK to keep the belts fastened...
                    Yes it is. Just saying.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Evan View Post
                      Just saying.
                      Saying != proving.
                      Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                      Eric Law

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Evan View Post
                        But the cabin crew could clearly see it was time to get out (and not remain seated with your seat belt fastened). They probably should not have waited for the captain's order to begin the evacuation. That's where the bureaucracy comes in.
                        No...you don't get to bash the current procedures (Mr. Procedure Lover).

                        If you want the FA's to be able to declare the evacuation, then you need N1 gauges and a lights to confirm that the fuel is cut off to the engines located in all the galleys, and some additional procedures, decision trees and memory checklists and much training for the FA's to confirm that the engines are spooled down, and the fuel flow is off (with a number of additional type-specific nuances and contingencies for when the galley-located N1 and fuel flow gauges have their wires cut by the thrown compressor blade or the ensuing fire...)

                        Sure, I LOVE using the fundamental over-riding concept that airplane fires spread fast, you only have seconds and need to get the hell out sooner as opposed to later...

                        ...but the procedures are not without their benefits and are not bureaucratic!

                        It's all about whether you blindly follow procedure or whether you let fundamental concepts sometimes become involved in making sound decisions and actions.
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                          No...you don't get to bash the current procedures (Mr. Procedure Lover).

                          If you want the FA's to be able to declare the evacuation, then you need N1 gauges and a lights to confirm that the fuel is cut off to the engines located in all the galleys, and some additional procedures, decision trees and memory checklists and much training for the FA's to confirm that the engines are spooled down, and the fuel flow is off (with a number of additional type-specific nuances and contingencies for when the galley-located N1 and fuel flow gauges have their wires cut by the thrown compressor blade or the ensuing fire...)

                          Sure, I LOVE using the fundamental over-riding concept that airplane fires spread fast, you only have seconds and need to get the hell out sooner as opposed to later...

                          ...but the procedures are not without their benefits and are not bureaucratic!

                          It's all about whether you blindly follow procedure or whether you let fundamental concepts sometimes become involved in making sound decisions and actions.
                          So, what? You see towering flames and dense smoke over the wing and smell acrid toxic fumes BUT you should be careful that the other engine is fully spooled down etc. blah blah blah? I beg to differ. Fire trumps all. FA's are already trained to take initiative if the crew is incapacitated. They are trained to open the exits only if fire is not present there and to check for hazards before sending pax down the chutes. If they see what we are seeing in those videos, they should at the very least get everyone up and moving toward the exits, and if they can't get an immediate evac order from the flight deck over the interphone, they should initiate it there and then. I'm certain the delay was due to the flightcrew not being fully aware of the situation.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by B757300 View Post
                            *Sigh*

                            As usual, people had to stop and get their carry on luggage. One of these days, people are going to die because of that.

                            https://twitter.com/DomworthNo1/stat...01647059472385

                            If you look @ the end of the video, you can see the left engine is mangled.

                            It looks like a major uncontained engine failure.

                            And is that a drone hovering at the very end of the video?
                            I cannot spot a drone flying anywhere in the video. I looked for one several times after you mentioned seeing one. I do not think it would be legal for someone to be flying a drone in that area, unless it was associated with the emergency crews?

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              I'm glad that everyone is alive, but why do so many passenger get injured going down the emergency evacuation slides in situations like this? Are they going down them in an unsafe manner, or should the slides be re-engineerd to prevent these injuries?

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Evan View Post
                                6?
                                I'd say that until you don't have confirmation that the Eng#2 is off, you have 4.

                                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X