Reports that a "West Air" CRJ-200 has gone missing in northern Sweden

[ErezS]

https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/685300016693534720

[SE-DUX]

[ErezS]

Officials: Swedish postal flight carrying 2 people crashes in Northern Sweden; rescue crews responding.

https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/status/685304245927702528

[ErezS]

Some updates:

West Air Sweden Flight PT294 CRJ-200 Crash

Update in A.net forum


RIP to the Pilots and their families. Always a sad day to lose an aviators.

[Gabriel]

By the photos here...

http://avherald.com/h?article=4920a18a&opt=0

... it looks like a vertical dive and hitting the ground essentially in one piece (although some smaller parts, an elevator, a slat..., might have separated causing the vertical dive in the first place).

[ATLcrew]

If the msn (7010) is correct, then this was originally a -100 and probably the oldest still flying. I have flown the very next one produced (msn 7011) numerous times. Amazingly, that airplane still soldiers on in Africa.

[3WE]

Ok, grossly speculative, but this would mark the second time an "empty" CRJ has crashed...were the pilots taking some liberties up there near coffin corner and lost control and/or broke something?

[LH-B744]

Hm, 3WE. What do hobby pilots do when they sit infront of the TV at night?

Probably watch this very very VERY infamous TV program, originally it is called 'Mayday' . Here in this case, the 2nd episode of Season 20, 'Air Crash Investigation'.
Here in Germany, this one is broadcasted with the original license, but with German dubbing actors (dt.: Synchronsprecher).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Air_Sweden_Flight_294

This flight ended with exactly zero survivors because the Flight Captain didn't follow one rule which afaik all Lufthansa pilots know:
'If the a/p or one of the instruments on your side gives you nonsense, switch it off!!'

I don't know if Lufthansa is only famous for 'very flat landings', flown by hand. In my eyes, a good pilot is also famous for switch all source of errors OFF.

Learned from Flight Captain Chesley Sullenberger III .

And after I watched this 'mayday' episode here on German TV, I have to second what one of the experts in this episode also said.

If one of your instruments SEEMS to go nuts, simply switch on the coffee knob!

(Almost) Nothing at FL330 is so very serious that not a coffee can take place before you care about it.

The Flight Captain in this case was 42 years old when he died. Senior investigator Greg Feith had simply written 'instrument failure' on this death certificate.

And obviously the young CRJ captain didn't learn something from Captain Sullenberger.

A sad thing. RIP, you young Flight Captain.

[Gabriel]

Pilots need to become used to cross-check instruments on a regular basis as part of the normal instrument scan so it becomes natural, rather than an extraordinary thing to remember to do, in moments of stress and confusion.

If not, the backup doesn't work as a backup.

[Evan]

This flight ended with exactly zero survivors because the Flight Captain didn't follow one rule which afaik all Lufthansa pilots know:
'If the a/p or one of the instruments on your side gives you nonsense, switch it off!!'

I hope that's not remotely true. If your instruments give you confounding readings, there is a procedure involving CRM, communication, cross-checking instruments. The first order of business is to establish situational awareness, not remove it.

AFAIK, the proper CRM callout for this sort of thing is not "What?!" As the report concluded, the two pilots became "communicatively isolated" almost immediately.

I don't know if Lufthansa is only famous for 'very flat landings', flown by hand.

If that's what you call it when the landing travels up your spine and knocks your teeth into your maxillary sinuses, then I can attest to this. But the word is 'infamous'.

[LH-B744]

2016 minus 42 ... born 1984? Definitely too young to die. Obviously he was from Spain, with 3200 flight hours of experience in the air, and more than 2000 flight hours (!)
on type CRJ200 .

West Air Sweden, est 1955, is based at Malmö. Since this fatal accident they've sold all their CRJs. Today, they fly B738 and.. B752 (!).

RIP, young fellow.

[LH-B744]

Pilots need to become used to cross-check instruments on a regular basis as part of the normal instrument scan so it becomes natural, rather than an extraordinary thing to remember to do, in moments of stress and confusion.

If not, the backup doesn't work as a backup.

As I've learned through the Mayday report, a CRJ200 even has 3 redundant systems in the cockpit, where you n me (only an example) could compare:
altitude,
vertical speed,
and, what I learned a CRJ200 provides us, a message of inconsistency on the Captains side, which COULD've told him, his F/O reads completely different numbers.

It was 'instrument failure' on the Captains side, in combination with a lack of conversation between Captain and his F/O.

My friend. I'd say, if you read completely nonsense alt and v/s numbers on your left side, I'd tell you that fact as your F/O...

Lack of conversation, in a professionally driven cockpit?! In my eyes, a good international airline since alot of years has measures that almost exclude these problems.

Cockpit Management Training?

PS: Dear greetings. I am quite sure, with you n me, all souls on board (two) should have survived. Because either I had shaken you to see the message of inconsistency,
or I had taken out my rather LOUD and brilliant voice to convince you to give me control as your F/O.

Nothing of that happened back then 2016. A sad story.

[LH-B744]

I again get a system error when I try to edit my #10 here. So, ... don't you call me a waster of forum posts!

2016 minus 42 ... born 1974? Definitely too young to die. And I only discovered the wrong number when I compared him to myself (what Gabriel and I call a Cross-check):

2018 minus 40.. But still way too young to die,

and ...much more closer to me than I thought... (with his age).

PS: A difficulty of all people born in the 20th century... 116 minus 42... 74 (if I have that correct).

So. If the two people on board that CRJ had survived, the Captain exactly this year had celebrated his 50th birthday?

A really sad story.

[LH-B744]

Back on topic.

23:11 local in a January winter night, i.e. take off in Oslo in full darkness, as I assume (?). No problem so far, the CRJ200 (sold to West Air
by Lufthansa) is fully IFR capable.
And also Oslo Gardermoen Intl is fully IFR capable as I assume, never been there.

Radar contact to the West Air CRJ200 got lost at 00:31 local. After that, the Flight Captain (1974-2016) must've gone into something like panic, when he erroneously perceived
more than FL330.

And he pushed the yoke with everything he had to "correct the climb" (a climb which in fact never took place).

Two questions in my eyes are still open, also after the Mayday report:
1) Instrument failure on the Captains side, so far the CRJ FDR seems to be conclusive. The Captains altimeter erroneously showed more than FL330 .

So. Now I allow you to call me an aviation beginner. But in my eyes, not only in a B744 (simulator) but also in a smaller CRJ200 on both the Captains side
and the F/O side
we find a vertical speed indicator. As far as I know, the B744 PFD on both sides includes (cpt and f/o) the vertical speed indicator.

Which is not the case in each and every jet, e.g. not necessarily in a CRJ200:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:West_Air_Sweden_Flight_294_Flight_Display_image.png

But nevertheless where the vertical speed indicator is to be found in a CRJ200, how many instruments did this Captain ignore?

Only the second and third altimeter? Or also the vertical speed indicators on his and the f/o side?

2) Again, call me a beginner, but what I had done is.
a) disconnect a/p and a/t to have the bird in my own hands . Here NO difference between B744 and CRJ (!)
b) reduce throttle without touching the yoke. Imho that MUST result in less altitude. If still erroneously a climb is shown on the PFD, I know that my PFD is Schrott. Then ask my F/O
for the correct altitude.

... et cetera.

[bstolle]

b) reduce throttle without touching the yoke. Imho that MUST result in less altitude.

That's an even worse idea than reducing the pitch attitude. Congrats to killing yourself, your crew and your passengers even faster and unrecoverable than the CRJ captain did.
Furthermore the CRJ iniitially pitches up with thrust reduction.

An ADI failure is a lot more difficult to recognize and handle than e.g. simply retracting the gear after take off with failed engine. Something your highly praised LH pilots manage to do!

[bstolle]

Pilots need to become used to cross-check instruments on a regular basis as part of the normal instrument scan so it becomes natural, rather than an extraordinary thing to remember to do, in moments of stress and confusion.

An ADI failure is about the worst thing that can happen to you and it's an extremely difficult problem to solve.
If it's the ASI, the VSI, etc. that might give false information, the most basic and important instrument you always refer to is the ADI.
ADI failures are very rare and they can cause a rapid onset of vertigo and disorentation. E.g. the AI855 crash.
It may sound easy: Oh, that attitude indication looks a bit strange, I should crosscheck with the other two.
Fact is that the first impression is, why isn't the plane doing what it is supposed to do, and what can I do to counteract it.
An abnormal high pitch attitude at high altitude is going to kill you pretty fast (not as fast if you would additionally reduce thrust of course) so you have to act immediately.
Better to initially pitch down before waiting to long.
I experienced it once in a Dash8, that the left ADI failed after takeoff and it constantly showed a 45° left bank and 10° pitch up attitude.
After half the Captain decided to cover the ADI with a newspaper because it was so distracting that he figured that manual flying was severly compromised during the planned istrument approach and that was in bright daylight!