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Plane ‘carrying football team from Brazil’ crashes in Colombia.

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  • Plane ‘carrying football team from Brazil’ crashes in Colombia.

    A plane carrying 72 passengers and nine crew members was involved in an accident near Rionegro, Colombia, according to the country's civil aviation department.

    The plane declared an emergency between the municipalities of La Ceja and La Union, according to a statement from Colombian aviation officials.
    There could be six possible survivors, the statement said.
    Officials didn't specify what happened to the plane but did say that the wounded were being transported to assistance centers.
    The mayor of nearby Medellin said on Twitter that he is on his way to the accident site.
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/29/am...ent/index.html

    An airplane with 81 people on board, including players from a Brazilian soccer team heading to Colombia for a regional tournament final, has crashed on its way to Medellin's international airport.

    Medellin's Mayor Federico Gutierrez said that it is possible there are survivors.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...rash-72-board/

    Plane with Chapecoense Brazilian professional football players reportedly crashes in Colombia at around 10:15pm local time in Cerro Gordo after disappearing in the Colombian airspace, the Jose Maria Cordova International Airport in Rionegro said in a statement, adding that there may be survivors.

    According to local media, some 72 people were on board. The football team was going to the South American Cup final against Atletico Nacional in a game set for Wednesday.

    Read more:
    https://sputniknews.com/world/201611...a-plane-crash/

    Plane carrying 81, including soccer team, involved in accident in Colombia
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/29/am...ent/index.html


    BOGOTA, Colombia (AP) — Authorities are responding to an emergency after an airplane with 72 people on board has crashed on its way to Medellin’s international airport.

    Medellin’s international airport said on its Twitter account that the aircraft had departed from Bolivia.

    It’s not clear if there are any survivors.

    Local media reported that the charter aircraft was carrying members of the soccer team Chapecoense from Brazil, which is scheduled to play Copa Sudamerica finals against Atletico Nacional on Wednesday in Medellin.
    http://q13fox.com/2016/11/28/colombi...ith-72-aboard/

    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...-2933/#bbef1b9

    AIRCRAFT: Avro RJ85
    REGISTRATION: CP-2933
    SERIAL NUMBER (MSN) : E2348


    http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos....search=CP-2933


    Here you see the moment when the aircraft disappeared off the radar.

    https://twitter.com/AndresFelipe/sta...67534011928576

    Here you see the moment of the fall of the aircraft:
    https://twitter.com/CNAviationDaily/...79091840172033

    Attached Files
    Last edited by ErezS; 2016-11-29, 06:49. Reason: I added more details and pictures.

  • #2
    Pilot declared emergency due to electrical problems.

    http://avherald.com/h?article=4a16583c

    Comment


    • #3
      Reports of another plane approaching the airport asked priority, ATC putting the CP-2933 on holding pattern before clearance to land.
      Apparently no signs of fire in the crash site.
      Possibility of an Avianca Flight 52 like scenario.
      Sad.

      Thoughts for the victims, and the survivors, and all their families, friends & loved ones.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Observer View Post
        Pilot declared emergency due to electrical problems.

        http://avherald.com/h?article=4a16583c
        More info and photos added to the avherald article.
        This one particularly called my attention:

        Emergency services reported the aircraft did not catch fire increasing the chances of survivors.
        The head of investigation stated: "No existe evidencia de combustible en la aeronave" (there is no evidence of fuel in the aircraft).


        This was a rumor last night reported by some media. Now it looks more official and likely to be a direct link with the cause of the crash.

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

        Comment


        • #5
          Fuel exhaustion, Gabriel ?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Observer View Post
            Fuel exhaustion, Gabriel ?
            Almost certainly. They would have lost everything but emergency electrics (BAT). No RAT on the Avro AFAIK.

            Big unknown factor: what fuel tank configuration did this a/c have (any what was the fuel order)?
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • #7
              may be interesting to find out if and why the viva colombia plane diverted causing a 6 minute hold to the incident plane. not to mention how bloody stupid these pilots were if they agreed to hold with low fuel, which i suppose must have been hyper-critical fuel if they crashed 8 minutes later because of running out...

              either way, damn shame 76 innocents are no longer with us...

              Comment


              • #8
                This engine doesn't seem to have been turning at high speed (or any normal operating speed), if at all, at the time of impact.

                Click image for larger version

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                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                Comment


                • #9
                  Very concerning information is surfacing.

                  There was a Viva plane that declared fuel emergency, so the other traffic in the zone (including the LaMia plane) were put in a holding pattern to give priority to the emergency plane.

                  The LaMia was number 3 in the line in the hold, at 21000ft. There was another plane #2 at 19000ft and another one at 14000ft.

                  The pilot at 19000ft reported that the LaMia pilot asked a few times, with anxiety, how much would they be holding, then informed to the ATC about "fuel problems", then advised that he was leaving the hold and initiating the approach (without clearance), point at which ATC directed the other planes in the hold to move away to avoid conflicts, then the pilot informed total electrical failure and that was the final contact. The pilot never ever declared emergency.

                  Authorities of the airline informed that the pilot was a shareholder of the airline, and that there was a fuel stop scheduled, and that they didn't know why the plane skipped the fuel stop but that the pilot, short of that stop, must have assessed that the fuel on board was enough to reach the final destination.

                  The fuel would have been more than enough had the Viva plane not declared emergency, which led ATC to detour the LaMia plane and keep it in hold.
                  However, it doesn't look that they had enough fuel to make an approach to Rionegro, abort at the minimumums, fly to the alternate and land there with 30 minutes of fuel remaining. The fact that the pilot never declared emergency and even was not clear about the problem (just "fuel problem", not "low fuel" or "minimum fuel" or evnr request priority which in fact has not "legal" effect like declaring emergency does) makes me believe that the pilot fully knew that he was at fault and that the decision to go to the final destination without a fuel stop was not legal.

                  I think that at this point we can almost close the technical investigation on the direct cause of the crash and start working on human factors, management issues, and oversight.

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So to summarize: a plane that wasn't carrying sufficient fuel crashed due to fuel exhaustion and killed a bunch of people because it was delayed so another flight which also didn't have sufficient fuel could have an expedited landing?

                    Wow.
                    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

                    Eric Law

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      I think that at this point we can almost close the technical investigation on the direct cause of the crash and start working on human factors, management issues, and oversight.
                      For example:

                      PIC AND SHAREHOLDER: Hey, I bet you 77 souls we can make it there without the fuel stop.

                      F/O: __________________.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by elaw View Post
                        So to summarize: a plane that wasn't carrying sufficient fuel crashed due to fuel exhaustion and killed a bunch of people because it was delayed so another flight which also didn't have sufficient fuel could have an expedited landing?

                        Wow.
                        Not really. Apparently the plane that successfuly landed was flying from Bogota to San Andrez, had a mid-flight fuel leak, diverted to Medellin and requested priority to land because of fuel emergency. With no major problems in terms of procedures with tha facts that are available at the moment. The plane that crashed was then put on hold. Although all current evidences show that the plane that crashed was flying beyond its limits in terms of fuel, the pilot never communicated to ATC the real dangerous situation in terms of fuel levels. So far, there is no evidence of any clear communication of fuel-related emergency from the crashed plane. If that is correct, either the crew was not aware of the situation or was avoiding any kind of penalties in case they landed.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by elaw View Post
                          So to summarize: a plane that wasn't carrying sufficient fuel crashed due to fuel exhaustion and killed a bunch of people because it was delayed so another flight which also didn't have sufficient fuel could have an expedited landing?

                          Wow.
                          Swiss cheese chain of events and thick, sad irony. Also while we grossly violated procedures with respect to fuel management, we were too strict to follow them with respect to holding and listening to ATC instructions.

                          Is there not something to be said for cowboy improvisation of 1) saying no, we won't hold and 2) getting on the 2-way radio, and talking to the other fuel starved plane about your whereabouts and intentions and going ahead and landing...

                          ...or is there a fundamental airmanship-procedural gray area called CRM where you make sure all of this is kept in balance.
                          Les rčgles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                            Swiss cheese chain of events and thick, sad irony. Also while we grossly violated procedures with respect to fuel management, we were too strict to follow them with respect to holding and listening to ATC instructions.

                            Is there not something to be said for cowboy improvisation of 1) saying no, we won't hold and 2) getting on the 2-way radio, and talking to the other fuel starved plane about your whereabouts and intentions and going ahead and landing...

                            ...or is there a fundamental airmanship-procedural gray area called CRM where you make sure all of this is kept in balance.
                            It's not just about cowboymanship, it's about concealment I think. They probably thought they could get away with this without declaring fuel emergency but after a couple orbits they went cowboy and proceded the approach without clearance. Somewhere very close to the ground they realized that black and white procedures are not just for other, less gifted pilots...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Evan View Post
                              It's not just about cowboymanship, it's about concealment I think. They probably thought they could get away with this without declaring fuel emergency but after a couple orbits they went cowboy and proceded the approach without clearance. Somewhere very close to the ground they realized that black and white procedures are not just for other, less gifted pilots...
                              Believe it or not, black and white is the right way to do fuel management: Either you have enough fuel to make the flight + reserves OR you plan for a fuel stop.

                              You monitor fuel during the flight and either you have enough fuel to continue the flight OR you make a fuel stop.

                              Winds can vary and you can 'use your brain and common sense', but solid pilot skills make for very few 'good' off-airport airliner landings.
                              Les rčgles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                              Comment

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