The United debarcle

[TeeVee]

That's what I've said. No announcement about closing the door of the lav. But also it is not about not congregating in the galleys, only the FWD galley. And it is not "congregating" (which sounds like a bunch of people) but not allowing a single person staying in that area. And in the announcement they explain the what but not the why, the why being them not wanting people near the cockpit door. That's why I said that they could have explained it to you and just ask you to close the door.

By the way, there is a rule that is always announce that is that you have to comply with instructions from the crew. I think that asking you to close the door would have been a reasonable instruction to comply with (if it had been asked to you, which it wasn't), especially if they explained why (which they didn't).

i've spent HOURS standing in the galley just this year alone. sometimes chatting with an FA or two, sometimes just stretching. i've never been told to leave. i also dont do so during service and unless chatting, i don't spend more than a minute or so.

on aa, if you are a biz/first class pax, you will not be told to sit down if you are waiting for the head unless you are interfering with service or the seatbelt sign is lit.

[3WE]

F.A.O.: Tee Vee

They threaten to arrest you, while at the same time allegedly were negligent as compared to almost all other carriers in a town named Chicago where winter precipitation is sometimes known to occur.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/southwest-passengers-no-damages-flights-155719799.html

I believe justice was probably served, I'm sure they didn't PLAN to run out, and excrement transpires with respect to bad weather spells.

I get more PO'd over Atlanta or DFW that cascade derails when an old fashioned line of thunderstorms crosses the Southeast.

[3WE]

(I suspect they are also subject to electric shock punishment during training for any instance of thinking for themselves).

Indeed.

[Gabriel]

totally agree with evan. abused employees are not happy employees.

as for gabe, sorry mate, while there is an announcement regarding not congregating near the galleys, there is no rule that lav door can't be open. i've only had to listen to these announcements say what, 1000 times?

That's what I've said. No announcement about closing the door of the lav. But also it is not about not congregating in the galleys, only the FWD galley. And it is not "congregating" (which sounds like a bunch of people) but not allowing a single person staying in that area. And in the announcement they explain the what but not the why, the why being them not wanting people near the cockpit door. That's why I said that they could have explained it to you and just ask you to close the door.

By the way, there is a rule that is always announce that is that you have to comply with instructions from the crew. I think that asking you to close the door would have been a reasonable instruction to comply with (if it had been asked to you, which it wasn't), especially if they explained why (which they didn't).

[Evan]

totally agree with evan. abused employees are not happy employees.

as for gabe, sorry mate, while there is an announcement regarding not congregating near the galleys, there is no rule that lav door can't be open. i've only had to listen to these announcements say what, 1000 times?

I think flight attendants are under too much pressure these days to placate very crowded and uncomfortable cabins full of people who have arrived there via a path of discomfort and indignity, not to mention booking snafus and last minute changes. There is, at best, a fragile peace in effect which can escalate into conflict at any moment. The FA's are tense. They feel that maintaining this peace requires them to unequivically assert their authority and squelch any rebellion. I think the last straw for some of them is any lip from the passengers. Teevee, I understand your desire to introduce common sense to the situation, but my policy is to always to comply unless compliance works against me in some significant way (such as, sir, you have to give up your seat because we double-booked it). If the FA told me that I couldn't stand there with the door open, I would smile and immediately close the door (thinking of course, that the FA is a moron, but also that we live in a world or morons and moronic rules and this is the hand we have to play). So, essentially, don't give the FA's any lip and do what they say unless it is actually problematic to do so. Choose your battles wisely. When you get off the plane, you get your dignity and basic human rights restored to you. And your voting rights, if you care to speak up about regulating this chaos through legislation. FA's are not always chosen for their Ivy League summa cum laude education, and I find that they are often not approachable through a debative process involving the intellect (I suspect they are also subject to electric shock punishment during training for any instance of thinking for themselves).

[3WE]

totally agree with evan. abused employees are not happy employees.

Not sure when middle and upper management lost all common sense...The measure-EVERYTHING and then "beat" folks with "performance analyses", don't really listen, train everyone to brain-dead robots (Note how all of the cabin announcements are 98% to script), and don't really reward intangible things that folks do to make things better...[Unless you can get a PR home run]


And knowing that the airline has zero extra mechanics, parts, or extra plane capacity to address a mechanical problem or weather delay...FAs know this...Yes, passengers, we are screwing you...it's what we do...we don't enjoy it so we don't give a phugoid if you don't enjoy it and neither does our management give a phugoid, other than heavy lip service with big holes in substance.

[3WE]

Just adding to the hair splitting- Once when solidly in the middle of a line boarding line for a huge RJ, someone reversed course when their name was announced. Sensing that "reverse the line" wasn't going to be super efficient, I sidestepped partly into the Galley.

"Sir you can't stand in the Galley"

"Ok, I'm just trying to let this guy get to the front as quickly as I can so we can all insure an on-time departure"

"Sir you can't stand in the Galley"

I can nit pick- I don't think the gal heard, understood nor acknowledged what I said- ["Yeah, I see what you are trying to do, but I do need you to please exit the galley- health regulations, you know and thank you"]….BUT conversely, she was totally calm...I was pretty much locked in place by surrounding humanity...shuffled a little and then reverse person hit the front of the plane and I think she realized that neither national security and the health department sanitary security was at risk. I exited the Galley as soon as I reasonably could, without resorting to Brian size 12 carry on evacuation mode.

So, who knows.

Maybe it's possible you can't stand with the Lav door open, or maybe she just made it up. I briefly imagined that the door might block the aisle, but no, they fold inward. Maybe it just looked creepy how TeeVee was drying his pants. Anyway- no argument that "arrest" seemed way over the top, just wondering if it is truly required that the lav door close...if you ducked in and grabbed a paper towel without closing the door, are you subject to arrest?

More nit picking: I have heard little heards of FA's getting into bitch fests over other FA's and over passengers...they sometimes seem to mutually work themselves into an old fashioned tizzy...and sadly, that's all you need for one tail of the bell curve to start threatening arrest...

And, maybe this was something I've seen on AA a bit more than other lines.

[TeeVee]

totally agree with evan. abused employees are not happy employees.

as for gabe, sorry mate, while there is an announcement regarding not congregating near the galleys, there is no rule that lav door can't be open. i've only had to listen to these announcements say what, 1000 times?

[Gabriel]

can't judge a book by its cover or an airline from one flight, but last time i flew SWA my seatmate spilled water on me by accident, so i was standing in the lav with the door open drying my pants. FA yells at me that i can't stand there. i said, where. she says there. i said im in the lav. she says it doesnt matter.

Let me guess it was the forward lav?

You cannot stand in the area of the cockpit door. If you are in the lav, the door needs to be closed. If you want to go to the lav and it is occupied, you cannot stand and wait in that area (front galley). You need to return to your seat and wait until it is available or line up in the lav in the rear. They explain this very clearly in the safety and regulations briefing at the beginning of each flight (not the part of being in the lav with the door open, but it is obvious that it is the same concern).

I want justify their threatening with having you arrested though. They could have said "we can't have passengers in the area of the cockpit door. If you are in the lav I need you to please close the door".

[Evan]

can't judge a book by its cover or an airline from one flight, but last time i flew SWA my seatmate spilled water on me by accident, so i was standing in the lav with the door open drying my pants. FA yells at me that i can't stand there. i said, where. she says there. i said im in the lav. she says it doesnt matter. so i asked if this was swa humor and she threatened to have me arrested when we landed.

not the airline's fault but whoa! i've had some pretty shitty aa fa's but never been threatened with arrest for anything, let alone a question about humor.

I really think the race-to-the-bottom-slash-virtual-monopoly has created a mentally-damaging environment for flight attendants. Only regulation can end this madness. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

[TeeVee]

can't judge a book by its cover or an airline from one flight, but last time i flew SWA my seatmate spilled water on me by accident, so i was standing in the lav with the door open drying my pants. FA yells at me that i can't stand there. i said, where. she says there. i said im in the lav. she says it doesnt matter. so i asked if this was swa humor and she threatened to have me arrested when we landed.

not the airline's fault but whoa! i've had some pretty shitty aa fa's but never been threatened with arrest for anything, let alone a question about humor.

[3WE]

wait! what? SWA isn't perfect? holy shit! i thought the entire world was supposed to be modeled after them and jet blows...i mean blew...er, blue.

As an avid fan of SWA, I will state that I think their customer service is slightly better...their fares...slightly worse. I don't mind the cattle chute, but the more I fly them it's harder to get that window seat, regardless of my attempt to check in 23 hours and 59 minutes before the flight, unless I pay.

Yes, keep the mirror handy when pointing fingers.

PS: Can't quite remember, are they on "the" no fly list?

[TeeVee]

You mean the one where it's a huge mystery as to how your boarding number is assigned (the linkage to check-in time is pretty weak)

Also, how about when your flight is canceled so you lose your PAID priority boarding on the first TOTALLY FULL flight and then get it back on the second flight with an extremely EMPTY airplane.

BASTARDS!

wait! what? SWA isn't perfect? holy shit! i thought the entire world was supposed to be modeled after them and jet blows...i mean blew...er, blue.

[3WE]

...SouthWest model of group boarding...

You mean the one where it's a huge mystery as to how your boarding number is assigned (the linkage to check-in time is pretty weak)

Also, how about when your flight is canceled so you lose your PAID priority boarding on the first TOTALLY FULL flight and then get it back on the second flight with an extremely EMPTY airplane.

BASTARDS!

[Chris K]

This whole seat assignment brew haha makes me appreciate the SouthWest model of group boarding. Once ones ass is inserted into a seat, that's pretty much all she wrote.