The United debarcle

[Evan]

I couldn't agree more. It's an entirely specious argument he's making there. Also, I found David Dao's comments really quite moving. I was impressed that multiple witnesses testified that he wasn't at all "disruptive and belligerent", as United claimed. He was literally dragged out of his seat simply because his condition for giving it up was that he should be put on any alternative flight to his destination that same day, not the next. A condition that United could easily have satisfied using another carrier.

HELPFUL TIP: When the flight crew says you have to get off the plane, and they aren't interested in discussing that decision, you best get off the plane. Then make a scene.

[flashcrash]

United CEO Oscar Munoz: "It's an impossible situation... blah blah blah".

Please. If the airline can't book the flight so as to leave a seat available for a deadheading crewmember, that is to say, if the airline can't plan ahead and communicate with itself, that is not an 'impossible situation', that is a 'negligent situation'. That is chaos.

I couldn't agree more. It's an entirely specious argument he's making there. Also, I found David Dao's comments really quite moving. I was impressed that multiple witnesses testified that he wasn't at all "disruptive and belligerent", as United claimed. He was literally dragged out of his seat simply because his condition for giving it up was that he should be put on any alternative flight to his destination that same day, not the next. A condition that United could easily have satisfied using another carrier.

[Evan]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/09/us/un...dao/index.html

United CEO Oscar Munoz: "It's an impossible situation... blah blah blah".

Please. If the airline can't book the flight so as to leave a seat available for a deadheading crewmember, that is to say, if the airline can't plan ahead and communicate with itself, that is not an 'impossible situation', that is a 'negligent situation'. That is chaos.

They should have either a) offered any passenger on the flight many thousands of dollars to give up their seat (justifiable if another entire plane-load of passengers at the destination depends on that crewmember) or b) paid many thousands of dollars to get him on a private flight or on another carrier.

That is one day I would have loved to have my five minutes on a Congression hearing committee...

[flashcrash]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/09/us/united-airlines-david-dao/index.html

[elaw]

1. That’s illegal

Only because we don't (yet) have a powerful bank-robbers lobby in this country, donating $millions to political campaigns.

[3WE]

You could also pay your mortgage by stopping people on the street at gunpoint and taking their money. Does that make it okay?

I hate to point this out but, 1. That’s illegal and 2. People consider that to be of very little value as compared to being whisked warmly and safely (but not dryly) from DFW to ELP.

[elaw]

If it helps pay my mortgage, then yeah, I think I can.

You could also pay your mortgage by stopping people on the street at gunpoint and taking their money. Does that make it okay?

[3WE]

***Airlines***Financial Industry***I would end up paying more to let you change your ticket for free.***

Interesting that one is often accused of preditory lending behavior that tends to target poor folks and make rich folks richer vs preditory fee behavior that tends to target relatively richer businesses travelers and results in cheaper travel for poorer folks.

Fascinating how you can spin rather gross assaults on common sense and borderline ethics.

[Gabriel]

Let's be realistic on one thing. All this scheme, the incomprehensible (for the customer) ticket pricing, the cancellation and change fees, the baggage fees, the paid snacks, etc, all make up to the bottom line.
If we went to a more reasonable scheme (as it was in the past), the base fare would go up to make up for the loss revenue in all the other categories.

In other words, I would end up paying more to let you change your ticket for free.

[TeeVee]

That makes one of us.

yup. i'm clearly biased against an industry that relies on excessive fees, hiding the ball, and deceiving its customers so its pilots can pay their mortgages.

[ATLcrew]

well, at least you were honest enough to admit that your obvious bias disqualifies your opinion.

That makes one of us.

[TeeVee]

If it helps pay my mortgage, then yeah, I think I can.

well, at least you were honest enough to admit that your obvious bias disqualifies your opinion.

[ATLcrew]

change fees today VERY often exceed the ENTIRE r/t ticket price! can you honestly defend that? can anyone?

If it helps pay my mortgage, then yeah, I think I can.

[TeeVee]

sorry gabe. maybe outside of the US returns/refunds were scarce. but here in the wonderful capitalist empire of amurikah, refunds have pretty much always been freely given for unused items in the retail setting. heck, i can even remember a time when if you cancelled your flight before departure, you were allowed a refund or a credit FOR THE FULL AMOUNT. now, you can cancel and they give you a credit which can be used for a future ticket. but, they deduct $200 for "changing."

let's take an example: MIA-LGA (a HUGELY popular route that is almost always sold to capacity, even though AA has something like 13 flights per day). i buy my ticket today to leave on may 1st return may 8th, and i pay $241 r/t. 2 days from now, i go online and change my trip to depart may 8th return may 15th. assuming fares are the same, i end up paying $200 for the joy of changing my own ticket. on all 4 flights, there was at least one seat available. so realistically, AA loses nothing since i'll be filling one seat on 2 of the flights no matter which dates.

if the scenario is such that the departure date is much closer, forget the change fee. the fare difference will more than compensate AA for the change, since nowadays, booking closer to departure always means paying a much higher fare.

[3WE]

I don't totally agree with that.

I think TeeVee does not object to a rebooking fee and understands that "anything goes" disrupts the beautiful, scientifically-engineered system of sending the right number of seats here and there and potentially runs off a customer needing the service...

But $200 bucks to change MONTHS out when they are 99.9% certain to resell the seat...

The word is "excessive".