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  • #31
    Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    I never said that it did, in fact I opened with the fact that I believe that the police over reacted. This however does not change the fact that since 9-11 MANY things have changed, and will NEVER go back to the way it was. Hey I remember as a brand new First Officer that they were serving roast beef off of a carving cart and you were served on china and linen table cloths. Hell, we had one 74 with an aluminum piano on the upper deck!
    Fair enough... I just have a slightly more extreme view. I don't think the police overreacted, I don't think they should have reacted at all. The United people never should have called them, and when called they should not have been willing to to United's dirty work.

    Or to put a slightly different slant on it: if the authorities are trying to convince us that violence on an aircraft is a bad thing, they should not themselves be acting violently on aircraft unless there's no alternative... which there clearly was in this circumstance.

    Re the other stuff... I would SO like to fly on a 747 with a piano bar but like you said... ain't never gonna happen.
    Be alert! America needs more lerts.

    Eric Law

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    • #32
      Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
      Did the airport police go overboard? Yes! But.. Post 9-11 air travel has changed worldwide. You are asked by someone working for the airline to deplane, you get your baggage from under the seat or overhead, get off the plane and work it out in the terminal period. You don't like the seating, food, etc. Book with a different carrier or take a damn train or car. Nobody is forcing you to fly.
      really? you just do it because? because the airlines' needs outweigh the needs of their paying pax at any cost to the pax? sorta like this....
      i remember you posting that you closing in on retirement (congrats). tomorrow, some corporate exec stuffed suit hands you a letter laying you off, just because. because they can. oh and you lose your pension and benefits, just because. because they can.

      you and faaaaarrrrrrrr too many other people are and have been advocating that we all become sheeple to corporate greed. nothing is too far or too much. don't rock the boat. be a good pax and spread them cheeks for me, would ya?

      on that note let me veer way off course. today, i was once again forced to wait nearly an hour for my bags--my priority tagged bags--which were the last bags to be put on the carousel. this happens ALL THE TIME.

      here is a quote from aa's website: "At check in, your baggage will be tagged with branded Priority bag tags, and when you arrive at your destination, they’ll be among the first delivered to the baggage claim area."

      note they don't say the bags MAY be...Rather they'll (they WILL).

      priority tagging is a benefit of being elite, but it also comes to biz and 1st class pax as part of what you're paying for.

      i've been bitching to aa about this for years. do they care? nope. why? cuz they know/think i will do nothing. i'm seriously considering suing them for a partial refund of my biz class ticket price. not for the money, but to make a point. a point that if more people would make, corporations might act a bit differently.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
        really? you just do it because? because the airlines' needs outweigh the needs of their paying pax at any cost to the pax? sorta like this....
        i remember you posting that you closing in on retirement (congrats). tomorrow, some corporate exec stuffed suit hands you a letter laying you off, just because. because they can. oh and you lose your pension and benefits, just because. because they can.

        you and faaaaarrrrrrrr too many other people are and have been advocating that we all become sheeple to corporate greed. nothing is too far or too much. don't rock the boat. be a good pax and spread them cheeks for me, would ya?

        on that note let me veer way off course. today, i was once again forced to wait nearly an hour for my bags--my priority tagged bags--which were the last bags to be put on the carousel. this happens ALL THE TIME.

        here is a quote from aa's website: "At check in, your baggage will be tagged with branded Priority bag tags, and when you arrive at your destination, they’ll be among the first delivered to the baggage claim area."

        note they don't say the bags MAY be...Rather they'll (they WILL).

        priority tagging is a benefit of being elite, but it also comes to biz and 1st class pax as part of what you're paying for.

        i've been bitching to aa about this for years. do they care? nope. why? cuz they know/think i will do nothing. i'm seriously considering suing them for a partial refund of my biz class ticket price. not for the money, but to make a point. a point that if more people would make, corporations might act a bit differently.
        You are an attorney correct? Stop your bitching and just call up NetJets and pass it on to your clients!

        https://www.netjets.com/Home/?gclid=...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds

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        • #34
          And on a more serious note, I will repeat this again, this is post 9-11, there is NOTHING you or I will ever be able to do to make commercial air travel go back to the way it used to be. Yes I mostly carry box's so I don't have to go through some of it. But I do have to get to and from work. I sit in back like the rest of you, yes I am usually in uniform and I do get treated a little better than the rest of the heard. However I have been asked to deplane even in uniform. Either get used to it, or take a train, car, bicycle, walk or charter your own aircraft.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
            ..."At check in, your baggage will be tagged with branded Priority bag tags, and when you arrive at your destination, they’ll be among the first delivered to the baggage claim area."...
            So...

            JMO, I can't believe they offer something like that.

            While I am just a lowly outsider, my casual observations show that baggage is treated with minimal priority.

            I guess I should say that some effort is made to push bags when there are tight connections, but aside from that, it seems that there is wide variability on when bags will show up.

            Rampie crew members (like Pilot crews and Hostie/Hosthe crews) are also six sigma computer optimized with reduced resilience...and it takes relatively little to muck up the finely honed ballet of parking, unloading, moving bags to the passengers or the next flight, etc.

            And the facial expressions of the folks and the frequency of seeing a bag fall off a cart and the tossing and dropping and how often your bag is more than a little bit boogered...

            And the topic you mentioned some time ago...if you get canceled, you ain't getting your bag back.

            That they'd go to any effort at all to put your special bags in a special place on the plane and then a special place on the carts and make a special effort to set them off first...that just does not compute with what I see out the windows.

            Conversely, there is now zero shame in lying about stuff...including, "oops, sorry I know it LOOKS like everyone is seated, but we're over booked".
            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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            • #36
              i would but....most of my clients cannot/will not pay that much and about 1/2 of my travel is personal and i definitely aint that rich.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                And on a more serious note, I will repeat this again, this is post 9-11, there is NOTHING you or I will ever be able to do to make commercial air travel go back to the way it used to be. Yes I mostly carry box's so I don't have to go through some of it. But I do have to get to and from work. I sit in back like the rest of you, yes I am usually in uniform and I do get treated a little better than the rest of the heard. However I have been asked to deplane even in uniform. Either get used to it, or take a train, car, bicycle, walk or charter your own aircraft.
                the heart of the problem is not 9/11 or post 9/11 related, other than by chronology. it's corporate greed run amock.

                as for you getting bumped, i can only assume you are dead-heading so, you should be the first to be asked to leave as between dead-headers and fare paying pax.

                ooooooorrrrrrrrrrrr, we can all start to rebel against the kind of shit that leads to a man being physically injured (lost 2 teeth and broken nose) for corporate profit. it's beyond despicable. unfortunately, the herd would rather get screwed over than stand up for themselves and the lame ass excuse we have for congresspeople and senators are too busy sucking the corporate tit to care.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                  As for you getting bumped, i can only assume you are dead-heading so, you should be the first to be asked to leave as between dead-headers and fare paying pax.
                  Actually no, the last time I was bumped was on a company paid ticket home at the end of a pattern. I was told by the gate agent that I had purchased (my company's travel department) the last ticket and that is how they decide.

                  I cannot emphasize this enough, and you are a highly educated man so I know you understand what I am saying if you can put your "corporate greed" anger aside for a moment, THIS IS A DIFFERENT DAY AND AGE! There are crazy ass f******g people in the world that want to do others harm because of their color, race, religion or what ever. If someone of authority, I don't care if it is a flight attendant, gate agent, or a TSA idiot comes up to you on an aircraft and asks you to get up out of your seat and deplane, you would be the smarter fellow to grab your bags, get off and try to work out the problem with the gate agent. It is a loose loose situation. I cannot tell you how may times I have told other flight crewmembers NOT to get into pissing matches with customs agents. Another loose loose situation.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                    ...a flight attendant, gate agent, or a TSA idiot comes up to you on an aircraft and asks you to get up out of your seat and deplane, you would be the smarter fellow to grab your bags, get off and try to work out the problem with the gate agent...
                    Tough comment. I know there is some truth to it, but (and sadly) there is also truth to the 'resist' argument.

                    Hell yes, there are idiots and hell yes you do not start cussing and yelling, or doing anything physical and for gosh sakes say nothing threatening...

                    Maybe not WHAT you do, but HOW you do it with respect to 'resisting'.

                    ...how about, turn you your cell phone video, and calmly begin, "Please repeat, you are asking me to leave the plane?...for what reason are you asking me to leave the plane...I am sorry, I refuse to exit, please get an officer of the law...officer, am I being charged...Yes officer, I will deplane when you return with a warrant, in the meantime, I purchased a ticket, obtained this boarding pass, legally boarded the plane and have done nothing illegal or even out of the ordinary?".

                    Maybe at least record ALL of it, including asking other passengers to make some statements...THEN maybe get off the plane and THEN work it out with one of Tee Vee's colleagues...(as opposed to the gate agent you mention)
                    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                    • #40
                      As we dissect and discuss all of this, how do "we" handle another, subtle-but-hugely-different situation like this:

                      The weather is stormy at/around the destination. The Ops handbook and the dispatcher and the pilots ALL agree that there should be some extra fuel on board the RJ...AND WHOOPS, THEY ARE OVER WEIGHT.

                      Some folks are gonna have to get bumped.
                      (I've personally seen this!)I'm guessing that TeeVee is going to quickly cite that overweight IS covered in the COC- and far different from booting folks for a crew when there are three other flights potentially available.

                      And, I guess we STILL have the argument that United stopped too soon on upping the price for someone voluntarily deplane.

                      Still, this is interesting because- from the passenger viewpoint- it's not all that different.

                      (Yeah, ideally you do not board people, but this starts to cross over into the 'understandable human mistake mode' where there's a minor communication breakdown and the gate agent boards the plane).
                      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                        How about, turn you your cell phone video, and calmly begin, "Please repeat, you are asking me to leave the plane?...for what reason are you asking me to leave the plane...I am sorry, I refuse to exit, please get an officer of the law...officer, am I being charged...Yes officer, I will deplane when you return with a warrant, in the meantime, I purchased a ticket, obtained this boarding pass, legally boarded the plane and have done nothing illegal or even out of the ordinary?".
                        No! This EXACTLY what NOT TO DO! And I am NOT going to keep repeating myself. You take that attitude as a pax on one of my flights, and I will come back and personally put the ty-rap around your wrists!

                        Next time you fly I recommend you read the back of the ticket.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                          No! This EXACTLY what NOT TO DO! And I am NOT going to keep repeating myself. You take that attitude as a pax on one of my flights, and I will come back and personally put the ty-rap around your wrists!

                          Next time you fly I recommend you read the back of the ticket.
                          Interesting.

                          And, FWIW, there is no such thing as "the back of the ticket" any more...when did you last fly anywhere?

                          Even when there was stuff there, as is often repeated, it's full of all sorts of really really fine print of stuff that is not ever advertised...one might even argue 'kept secret'.

                          Sorry, your view here is borderline creepy if one cannot calmly ask questions.
                          Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                            Interesting.

                            And, FWIW, there is no such thing as "the back of the ticket" any more...when did you last fly anywhere?

                            Even when there was stuff there, as is often repeated, it's full of all sorts of really really fine print of stuff that is not ever advertised...one might even argue 'kept secret'.

                            Sorry, your view here is borderline creepy if one cannot calmly ask questions.
                            Do me a favor, you call up Atlas and get yourself a ticket to Ruanda from Houston. (Sorry the only passenger route we do that you can buy a ticket on.) Let me know when it is and I will get myself to crew it. The you be an asshole on the back of the airplane and see how fast I come back there and ty-wrap your ass up and have someone come drag you off MY aircraft.

                            In the mean time, read this. https://books.google.com/books?id=xc...ticket&f=false

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                              And I am NOT going to keep repeating myself.
                              Nobody's forcing ya, Bobby. Especially when it takes away from your 55+ housing shopping time.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                                ...you be an asshole on the back of the airplane...
                                Please quote where I said I would act like an asshole...Last I checked, asking a reasonable question was kind of legal.

                                If you are going to go on a psychological power trip melt down because you can fly a big jet and try to throw me off the plane I'll talk to Tee Vee and you can kiss your retirement good bye.

                                I thought you said that the police over reacted in the United deal and now you are bragging of your desire to assault passengers yourself.
                                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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