The United debarcle

[Evan]

Indeed. Looks like American has quietly killed off its capacity limitation policy. In fact, there's a US senator (Jeff Merkley) proposing legislation that would effectively force AA to stop putting passengers in middle seats. From his Twitter account: "@AmericanAir: how many Americans will die bc you fill middle seats, w/ your customers shoulder to shoulder, hour after hour? This is incredibly irresponsible". Worth opening a separate safety thread on middle seats?

It overlooks 2-3 commuter plane seating. Do you fly only three seats per row? On a 737 you can fill to 2/3rds capacity. On an E-jet you can only do 3/5ths.

[Evan]

United what? United who? They are looking at 36,000 layoffs. Where is this going? I'm glad my career in aviation is over. I positioned to Europe and Asia on United many times, they were all good memories.

Kent, this thread began as a thread about United but it has since become our general gripe thread about passenger abuse and the horror of flying in the race-to-the-bottom age. You got out at the right time.

[3WE]

It's control culture.

I think it's actually more complex...

[flashcrash]

I'm reading a lot of comments from people claiming that AA is packing planes without regard for public safety.

Indeed. Looks like American has quietly killed off its capacity limitation policy. In fact, there's a US senator (Jeff Merkley) proposing legislation that would effectively force AA to stop putting passengers in middle seats. From his Twitter account: "@AmericanAir: how many Americans will die bc you fill middle seats, w/ your customers shoulder to shoulder, hour after hour? This is incredibly irresponsible". Worth opening a separate safety thread on middle seats?

[kent olsen]

United what? United who? They are looking at 36,000 layoffs. Where is this going? I'm glad my career in aviation is over. I positioned to Europe and Asia on United many times, they were all good memories.

[Evan]

Given the airline's capacity limitation policy, what was a passenger doing in the middle seat anyway?

I'm reading a lot of comments from people claiming that AA is packing planes without regard for public safety. If I had to fly right now, it wouldn't be on American.

But, as to the policy of not sitting in a seat you didn't pay for, AA just got a public bailout, so, yeah, I paid for that seat, that seat, that seat and your salary. You work for me now.

[flashcrash]

It's endemic. Wherever they are finding these sociopathic flight attendents, they just seem to be going back for more. It's cultural. It's control culture.

In the past I've always said obey the flight attendents and complain later, for safety reasons, but now we have situations where obeying them is a safety risk. So what do you do then?

There could be an interesting legal challenge here if Ms Gonzalez and the aisle passenger feel sufficiently aggrieved. Given the airline's capacity limitation policy, what was a passenger doing in the middle seat anyway? For AA frequent flyers wondering if it's safe to travel with the airline once again, this is bad news. After all, if the reason for moving within your assigned cabin is a well-documented, clearly visible and government endorsed concern for your own safety, the flight attendant's authority to define your seating position takes second place. So much for AA's "Additional Flexibility":

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details...5/default.aspx

[Evan]

On a June 30 flight on American Airlines from Dallas to Newark, Joy Gonzalez, an aviation engineer based in Seattle, found herself seated at a window with two older passengers beside her in the middle and aisle seats. In order to gain more social distance, she and the aisle passenger both moved to seats behind them where two rows were empty. But before takeoff, a flight attendant ordered them back to their assigned seats, telling them they had not paid for those exit row seats, which are more expensive.

Ross Feinstein, a spokesman for the airline, wrote in an email that the restriction “appears to be in error, as we are permitting customers to move within the main cabin, including Main Cabin Extra seats,” which include exit rows.

It's endemic. Wherever they are finding these sociopathic flight attendents, they just seem to be going back for more. It's cultural. It's control culture.

In the past I've always said obey the flight attendents and complain later, for safety reasons, but now we have situations where obeying them is a safety risk. So what do you do then?

[CarolW]

You don't get discouraged by men who are as old as me, don't you. And there is really no reason. Even the oldest among us Senior Members [... ..] at the end are, friendly! As it is promised in the subtitle of this brilliant aviation platform: 'The friendly way to fly.'

You don't believe me, or you still don't know what I meant when I said, Let's Vancouver Intl come back to life?
Let me show you another jetphoto, by one of the jet photographers who also still like four engined long haul jets.. The explanation is in this photo:

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9560284

Due to that damn disease, that beautiful bird today does not arrive everywhere where it normally arrives.. And where does such a ABVP, which pilots often call the Victor Papa, arrive under normal conditions?

Well. One jetphoto says more than 1000 words!

PS: You might wonder why I don't show an Air Canada jet. Well, as I assume the Air Canada aircraft type which takes off from Vancouver Intl would clearly depend on the destination. With my favorite airline it is easier for me, only 1 aircraft type in the summer schedule 2020 for CYVR...

What a fabulous photo; thanks! And watch out; I'm almost twice your age!

I like to keep one eye on YVR, another on YYJ, and the third, here

P.S. I try not to cringe at the misspelling of "debacle!"

[LH-B744]

Really! That's my area! But I can't spot from my actual location. YYJ is closer to me, yet still out of my reach for spotting.

You don't get discouraged by men who are as old as me, don't you. And there is really no reason. Even the oldest among us Senior Members [... ..] at the end are, friendly! As it is promised in the subtitle of this brilliant aviation platform: 'The friendly way to fly.'

You don't believe me, or you still don't know what I meant when I said, Let's Vancouver Intl come back to life?
Let me show you another jetphoto, by one of the jet photographers who also still like four engined long haul jets.. The explanation is in this photo:

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9560284

Due to that damn disease, that beautiful bird today does not arrive everywhere where it normally arrives.. And where does such a ABVP, which pilots often call the Victor Papa, arrive under normal conditions?

Well. One jetphoto says more than 1000 words!

PS: You might wonder why I don't show an Air Canada jet. Well, as I assume the Air Canada aircraft type which takes off from Vancouver Intl would clearly depend on the destination. With my favorite airline it is easier for me, only 1 aircraft type in the summer schedule 2020 for CYVR...

[LH-B744]

Carol, slightly off topic, but I’ve found your new mode of transport ! ........ https://youtu.be/FCPGQg2eRL8

Don't you try to discourage such a shiny brilliant new jetphotos member!

Her signature 'broom navigator' is so cute, in an aviation forum. And you also hope that Vancouver International again is on the schedule of an airline near you.

It's really funny, I mentioned a story without names, and the man who theoretically should own the nickname 'BA-B742 Landor' answers. Greetings.

And let's hope that all the loyal customers find the way back to their favorite airline. Whichever airline that might be..

[brianw999]

Carol, slightly off topic, but I’ve found your new mode of transport ! ........ https://youtu.be/FCPGQg2eRL8

[CarolW]

I never tried to find that out. But is it a fact that in a flight number which usually is flown on board a 747-400 the real and loyal passengers do come from cities where the 747 is not originally based?

For me and my nickname, this is an open question. But for the Supermoderator and EK that seems to be a fact.

Only a few months ago, here in this forum I read somebody who wrote, 'Can't U tell us where still the 747 is on the schedule?' Well. Yes. This is an aviation forum.
Where if not here will we help you.

Call sign 'United 747' never again responded since they buried their very very last four engined long haul jet (!),
on November 7th 2017 after a flight from San Francisco to PHNL Honolulu International, on board the last UA-B744, the last UA Boeing 747 in the air on this planet.

Since then, aviation enthusiasts around the planet might look for four engined long haul jets. And yes, there still are some.
Vancouver International airport. Don't ask me about the airline and the a/c type, but that until March 3rd 2020 was a good place to see one four engined long haul jet.... ..... ...

And I hope that CYVR will soon be again one of the places!

Really! That's my area! But I can't spot from my actual location. YYJ is closer to me, yet still out of my reach for spotting.

[LH-B744]

I never tried to find that out. But is it a fact that in a flight number which usually is flown on board a 747-400 the real and loyal passengers do come from cities where the 747 is not originally based?

For me and my nickname, this is an open question. But for the Supermoderator and EK that seems to be a fact.

Only a few months ago, here in this forum I read somebody who wrote, 'Can't U tell us where still the 747 is on the schedule?' Well. Yes. This is an aviation forum.
Where if not here will we help you.

Call sign 'United 747' never again responded since they buried their very very last four engined long haul jet (!),
on November 7th 2017 after a flight from San Francisco to PHNL Honolulu International, on board the last UA-B744, the last UA Boeing 747 in the air on this planet.

Since then, aviation enthusiasts around the planet might look for four engined long haul jets. And yes, there still are some.
Vancouver International airport. Don't ask me about the airline and the a/c type, but that until March 3rd 2020 was a good place to see one four engined long haul jet.... ..... ...

And I hope that CYVR will soon be again one of the places!

[LH-B744]

I'm willing to make an exception for SleazyJet flights out of Manchester. Beat the passengers as needed. Turn back as often as possible. This is perfectly justified.


[...]

Holy f#ckin shit. Until only a few seconds ago, I assumed that you know the word Manchester only from picture books or from a storybook (dt.: Märchenbuch). Do not disappoint me.

Now I should tell you where I know the word Manchester from. It must have been the year of God 2010 (or earlier), when a man who called himself 'The Supermoderator' told stories in a rather unknown aviation forum, about flights who he does not want to take on board a 'Speedbird' (see my latest entry concerning call signs...)
BUT
he planned to travel to Manchester Ringway, and then he would not even take SleazyJet (which I've done in the past, God forgive me), but look for something with the
IATA code: EK
!

Ahm. As I said, I've made mistakes during the last 42 years. But this man on top of all that also stated that he never in this life was a passenger of an airline which really is only less than an hour away from him. For him, and for all people who sometimes forget about this young international airline, founded in 1974,
this is how an airline looks like, if you like to support your neighbors at Heathrow (!):

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9674375

Thank God, he never had a nickname where upon you could have assumed that he likes to support an airline which was founded only a dozen feet away from him, Speedbird type 747. ...

Back on topic. United connects Newark with Manchester ringway. And Manchester ringway is connected with Lohausen International airport, nonstop. Now tell me something. Older men, let's say older than me, seem to favor Manchester ringway, although they live only not much more than a footwalk away from Heathrow (!).

Where is the mistake?

Evan, why do people travel to EGCC, although at least since 1988 'Heathrow' should be the place to be (taken from 'a fish called Wanda') ?

PS: Here at Lohausen, we also see this EK jets. But I never had a problem with my home airline, which was the LTU until 2008, and since then our local airline, the Lufthansa. Which I know from inside the cabin, otherwise I would not own this nickname since more than 11 years!