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  • brianw999
    replied
    Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post

    He likes his seat. He paid for it just like you paid for yours. Why should HE move because of YOUR pain?

    Please keep paramedicine out of it, I've been in EMS on and off since 1996, your situation is hardly typical.
    You (expletive deleted) arrogant bastard ! You’re saying my situation is hardly typical ? You very obviously prove with that statement that you know fuck all about EMS operations here in the UK. The damage to my fitness was done over the years before we had powered cots, easyglide chairs, hydraulic lifts etc.
    I went to a staff retirement party last week. There were about 8 to 10 retired staff around the same age and length of service as me. Every single one of them has got orthopaedic disabilities that severely impinge on their ability to live a reasonable life.
    How much continuous service have you got ? I’ll wager not much. I see that you started in 1996 so you got it easy. Automated lifting and handling equipment was well established by then. I started in 1980 and put in 34 years of full time service. Oh yes, by the way, I also have 7 years service in the British Armed Forces Reserves as a Combat Medical Technician Class 1 to add to the physical wear and tear.

    Gabriel is talking more sense than you are and I don’t think that he even has any medical background.
    Last edited by brianw999; 2020-02-19, 17:34.

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  • Gabriel
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan View Post

    Yes, but the seat in front of this guy is not reclined. The pivot point for the seat is at about the armrests, so as the seat back comes toward you, the seat moves away from you. It appears to me from this photo that the recline does not affect knee room if all the seats are reclined. Especially if the person straightens out his legs rather than bending them when reclined.

    But you own the tall passenger credentials on this forum.
    In this case I will make an exception to my policy and impose my credentials. Believe me because I do suffer it in EVERY flight. So it is a matter of fact regardless of what it can look.

    Now, I can also explain the reasons why this fact is a fact.

    1) First of all, in most airplanes the back does NOT pivot at the armrest but at the bottom of the back. It is true that newer seats like the one in the picture pivot higher, but even then...
    2) As you can see in the picture, this guy's knees are clearly higher than the pivot so the clearance would clearly shrink if the guy in front reclined his seat.
    3) You are also not taking into account the horizontal distance between the pivot and the back "wall" of the seat (let's call it "d"). That horizontal distance becomes vertical if you could recline your seat to an horizontal position. Of course you cannot do that, but you still have some of that effect at intermediate angles. If we call the height of the pivot "h", any point of the seat back that is higher than h-d will move back shrinking the distance.
    4) Look at the guy, he has his knees bent more than 90 degrees. In any flight of more that a couple of hours that is unbearable, it simply cuts the blood flow to your legs. If the guy had his lower legs and feet more forward, or as forward as they would go until his tibia bone hits the seat structure in front, his knees would be higher.
    5) In my case, I am taller than this guy and my knees are wedged in the corner between the back "wall" and the lower edge of the tray. Do you know what will happen if you try to recline your seat and I am seated behind you? You wont. It is a geometric impossibility (unless something gives away). But in the process of attempting to do it, you will cause me a lot of pain.

    But you are pointing in the right direction. In a previous post I proposed that the seats are not reclinable anymore or that they pivot at a higher point so the one suffering the shrinking legroom is the reclining guy and not the guy behind. It's just not high enough yet (it should be at about the tray pivot).

    And I could give another rant about these new seats regarding the lower backs with the headrest. The lower back looks great, the cabin feels so much more open and spacious as your head is above all the seats. But that head rest for a tall person like me acts more like a shoulder rest. It pushed the upper part of my back forward and leaves my head unsupported, which is utterly uncomfortable.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post

    If you can afford the Gulfstream, you can afford to send me to FlightSafety for the type. I have a couple of dozen ex 74 Captains to fill the right seat no problem. You would need to have a touch more experience before any insurance company would let you be PIC I'm afraid. Not to mention a multi and instrument rating.
    If I can afford the G5, I can not only afford your type cert but also making you a CFII (if you are not one already), then you can make me a commercial multi IFR and I can do the type rating myself and then I can be your FO for a while to gain experience and then we swap seats.

    But the multi and instrument rating is not the only thing I am lacking. I am also lacking a few dozens of palos vedes.

    Leave a comment:


  • ATLcrew
    replied
    Originally posted by brianw999 View Post

    ATL wrote.....I'll rephrase: what if the guy seated in front of Brian has herniated discs and will be in great pain if he does NOT recline? Why is Brian's pain the only one that matters?

    Easily fixed ..... We swap seats. He can then recline to relieve his pain,
    He likes his seat. He paid for it just like you paid for yours. Why should HE move because of YOUR pain?

    Please keep paramedicine out of it, I've been in EMS on and off since 1996, your situation is hardly typical.

    Leave a comment:


  • brianw999
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan View Post

    Yes, but the seat in front of this guy is not reclined. The pivot point for the seat is at about the armrests, so as the seat back comes toward you, the seat moves away from you. It appears to me from this photo that the recline does not affect knee room if all the seats are reclined. Especially if the person straightens out his legs rather than bending them when reclined.

    But you own the tall passenger credentials on this forum.
    In the image posted look at where his butt is. The 4” cushion that I have purchased should hopefully not only raise my butt but also allow it to move back a little thereby bringing my knees back.

    Leave a comment:


  • BoeingBobby
    replied
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

    But the G5 is not a single-pilot jet, is it? You will need an FO.... or... on a second thought... I would need one.

    Are you G5-rated?
    If you can afford the Gulfstream, you can afford to send me to FlightSafety for the type. I have a couple of dozen ex 74 Captains to fill the right seat no problem. You would need to have a touch more experience before any insurance company would let you be PIC I'm afraid. Not to mention a multi and instrument rating.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

    Oh yes it does get absolutely horribly worse. How could leaning the back of the seat in front of your knees back towards your knees not reduce the clearance (if any) between that seat back and your knees? On the other hand, leaning your own torso back doesn't change either the position of your knees or of the seat back in front of your knees.

    Is it clear or you need a picture? (and judging by how he is seated not fully against his own back and he still have some small clearance between his knees and the back of the seat in front, I am taller than this guy).

    Click image for larger version

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    Yes, but the seat in front of this guy is not reclined. The pivot point for the seat is at about the armrests, so as the seat back comes toward you, the seat moves away from you. It appears to me from this photo that the recline does not affect knee room if all the seats are reclined. Especially if the person straightens out his legs rather than bending them when reclined.

    But you own the tall passenger credentials on this forum.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Originally posted by brianw999 View Post

    Interestingly, I am told that if 10 people were to get together and rent a private jet to fly within Europe the cost per seat would not be much more than a scheduled airline business class seat cost.

    More interestingly, 3WE, I am one of those polite travellers that asks the person behind me if it’s OK with them if I recline my seat.

    ATL wrote.....I'll rephrase: what if the guy seated in front of Brian has herniated discs and will be in great pain if he does NOT recline? Why is Brian's pain the only one that matters?

    Easily fixed ..... We swap seats. He can then recline to relieve his pain,

    Gabriel wrote......I don't know what blame does Brian carry regarding his knee conditions and "size". But I have no control whatsoever over my height (and while I am higher than most, I a am not an outlier either. Being in about the 1% percentile you can expect a few of us on average in every flight.

    I am just over 6 feet tall with an inside leg measurement of 32”. That creates the start of the problem in a 30” or less seat pitch but my personal issues are 34 years of working as a paramedic lifting and carrying the lame and lazy, working 12hr shifts which very regularly turn into 14hrs with a late call out, getting a 30 minute meal break if I am very lucky and eating fast food as result. Taking healthy food with me was not an option as we generally took our breaks on the run with no fridge availability.
    As a result of this I suffer from bone on bone bilateral knee arthritis, am overweight and cannot exercise to lose weight so my orthopaedic surgeon refuses to give me new knees which would fix my problems at a stroke.

    Half a lifetime devoted to public service ‘ain’t all its cracked up to be is it ?
    For the record, I am not among the ones that think that being overweight is a choice. But I did hear that said as an argument and, while I am against it, it is arguable, since in most cases being overweight is the result of the things that one does (and of other things that one doesn't do). I have the opinion that some types of decisions are not just voluntary and the result of simple free will and, while they can be accomplished, for some persons it takes more than that (like therapy, medication, coaching, work accommodations, and family emotional and material support).

    I used a tall person (me in this case) as an example where such an argument would just not work. Short of cutting your legs, there is no decision or "healthy habit" that one can implement to reduce one's height (or to never be too tall in the first place). While some persons can blame an overweight person for being overweight, nobody can blame a tall person for being tall.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    All you guys that are bitching about leg room. Buy a G-5 and hire me to fly you around. Lots of leg room, eat what you ordered and no TSA! PM me for my resume.
    But the G5 is not a single-pilot jet, is it? You will need an FO.... or... on a second thought... I would need one.

    Are you G5-rated?

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan View Post

    It doesn't get any worse though, does it? You would know more than me. Anyway, on long haul I'm reclining. (little dot is not a question mark)
    Oh yes it does get absolutely horribly worse. How could leaning the back of the seat in front of your knees back towards your knees not reduce the clearance (if any) between that seat back and your knees? On the other hand, leaning your own torso back doesn't change either the position of your knees or of the seat back in front of your knees.

    Is it clear or you need a picture? (and judging by how he is seated not fully against his own back and he still have some small clearance between his knees and the back of the seat in front, I am taller than this guy).

    Click image for larger version

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  • CarolW
    replied
    Originally posted by brianw999 View Post

    Interestingly, I am told that if 10 people were to get together and rent a private jet to fly within Europe the cost per seat would not be much more than a scheduled airline business class seat cost.

    ....More interestingly, 3WE, I am one of those polite travellers that asks the person behind me if it’s OK with them if I recline my seat.....

    That creates the start of the problem in a 30” or less seat pitch but my personal issues are 34 years of working as a paramedic lifting and carrying the lame and lazy, working 12hr shifts which very regularly turn into 14hrs with a late call out, getting a 30 minute meal break if I am very lucky and eating fast food as result. Taking healthy food with me was not an option as we generally took our breaks on the run with no fridge availability.
    As a result of this I suffer from bone on bone bilateral knee arthritis, am overweight and cannot exercise to lose weight so my orthopaedic surgeon refuses to give me new knees which would fix my problems at a stroke.

    Half a lifetime devoted to public service ‘ain’t all its cracked up to be is it ?
    Please allow me to thank you for your service. Paramedics provide some of the most crucial services in the world. I never had to avail myself of them till the last few years (I'm 83), but we have GREAT paramedics where I live, and they are worth more than anyone could imagine. Paramedics largely go unthanked and hugely underpaid. Twelve-hour shifts are ridiculous.



    I expect and trust pilots are treated better. So many lives depend on THAT, too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    If you can afford the Gulfstream, you can certainly afford me.
    Oh, I thought you meant the smartphone.

    Leave a comment:


  • brianw999
    replied
    Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    All you guys that are bitching about leg room. Buy a G-5 and hire me to fly you around. Lots of leg room, eat what you ordered and no TSA! PM me for my resume.
    Interestingly, I am told that if 10 people were to get together and rent a private jet to fly within Europe the cost per seat would not be much more than a scheduled airline business class seat cost.

    More interestingly, 3WE, I am one of those polite travellers that asks the person behind me if it’s OK with them if I recline my seat.

    ATL wrote.....I'll rephrase: what if the guy seated in front of Brian has herniated discs and will be in great pain if he does NOT recline? Why is Brian's pain the only one that matters?

    Easily fixed ..... We swap seats. He can then recline to relieve his pain,

    Gabriel wrote......I don't know what blame does Brian carry regarding his knee conditions and "size". But I have no control whatsoever over my height (and while I am higher than most, I a am not an outlier either. Being in about the 1% percentile you can expect a few of us on average in every flight.

    I am just over 6 feet tall with an inside leg measurement of 32”. That creates the start of the problem in a 30” or less seat pitch but my personal issues are 34 years of working as a paramedic lifting and carrying the lame and lazy, working 12hr shifts which very regularly turn into 14hrs with a late call out, getting a 30 minute meal break if I am very lucky and eating fast food as result. Taking healthy food with me was not an option as we generally took our breaks on the run with no fridge availability.
    As a result of this I suffer from bone on bone bilateral knee arthritis, am overweight and cannot exercise to lose weight so my orthopaedic surgeon refuses to give me new knees which would fix my problems at a stroke.

    Half a lifetime devoted to public service ‘ain’t all its cracked up to be is it ?

    Leave a comment:


  • BoeingBobby
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan View Post

    I can spring for the G5 but I don't think we can afford you.
    If you can afford the Gulfstream, you can certainly afford me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    Wrong. The distance between your knees and the back of the seat in front of you doesn't improve when you recline your seat, and in some newer seats it actually diminishes if you do.
    It doesn't get any worse though, does it? You would know more than me. Anyway, on long haul I'm reclining. (little dot is not a question mark)

    Leave a comment:

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