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  • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    The other day I went to MacDonald's. I wanted a quarter pounder, just the sandwich. But I saw a special offer that gave you the meal for less than the sandwich alone. So I bought the meal, ate the sandwich, didn't put any soda in the cup, and trashed the fires. Did I commit a crime?
    Yes, you put McDonald's in your body. Aside from that, no, you're just gaming the system that is trying to game you.

    Comment


    • at least these mindless, bullshit lawsuits are being dismissed. i would LOVE LOVE LOVE for an airline to sue me for this (i did it twice in the past two or three years). perhaps, nay, definitely! if airfares were based on actual costs to airlines (e.g., fuel, actual miles flown) you wouldn't see cases like LAX-MIA-MGA=$500 while MIA-MGA=$610. that's 6720 miles vs. 2014 (r/t), yet the shorter route is 20% cheaper???

      on another note, yesterday i had the distinct DISpleasure of flying on an older 737 configured as a MAX. absolutely despicable. biz class seating lost an amazing 4-5" of seat pitch! and shockingly, though it is still 2x2, the aisle is so friggin narrow even properly sized rollaboards have trouble rolling through. i couldn't bear to look in the back. but i'm sure it's a special kind of hell.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Evan View Post
        This is where we are.
        No, not really. I think the policy is yesterday’s news.

        The lawsuit- interesting...

        The double standard of their freedom to reschedule you with minimal recourse vs your freedom to reschedule with great penalty...yeah, eye rolling.
        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
          at least these mindless, bullshit lawsuits are being dismissed. i would LOVE LOVE LOVE for an airline to sue me for this (i did it twice in the past two or three years). perhaps, nay, definitely! if airfares were based on actual costs to airlines (e.g., fuel, actual miles flown) you wouldn't see cases like LAX-MIA-MGA=$500 while MIA-MGA=$610. that's 6720 miles vs. 2014 (r/t), yet the shorter route is 20% cheaper???

          on another note, yesterday i had the distinct DISpleasure of flying on an older 737 configured as a MAX. absolutely despicable. biz class seating lost an amazing 4-5" of seat pitch! and shockingly, though it is still 2x2, the aisle is so friggin narrow even properly sized rollaboards have trouble rolling through. i couldn't bear to look in the back. but i'm sure it's a special kind of hell.
          What puzzles me is how the airlines could be losing anything by this. You've already paid their price for that seat to fly that distance, whether you are in it or not. So they're not losing that. The ONLY way the airline is going to make more in the deal is if you don't show up and they can re-sell that seat as standby. (Unless... they were hoping to sell you things on board, seeing that airplanes have become shopping malls...)

          The only thing I can imagine is that connecting flights traveling through hubs are possibly more full than flights terminating there, and thus the more expensive terminating flights subsidize the lower fares on the connecting ones. But that's just their game. We can't be restricted from playing our own game. Not in a free market.

          on another note... i couldn't bear to look in the back.
          I wouldn't go looking there for sympathy.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
            If airfares were based on actual costs....
            Welcome to the free market. Prices of EVERYTHING (including of people, like wages and professional fees) are NOT based on cost but on supply and demand.
            Cost does play a part because companies will not sustain selling a product long-term below it's DIRECT VARIABLE cost (which is much much lower than the total cost), so if they can't sell it above that cost they will stop offering, supply goes down and, if there is demand, price goes up.

            Returning to the topic, I did this once. I was almost forced to do it.

            It was a business trip to China but first I had to go to Argentina. The "triangle" El Paso - Buenos Aires - Shanghai - El Paso was almost TWICE as much as a round trip to Buenos Aires plus a round trip to Shanghai (both starting from El Paso). I ended up splitting not only the triangle but also the airlines. It was United ELP-IAH-EZE-IAH-ELP and American 2 tickets, one one-way from IAH to DFW and then ELP-DFW-HKG-ORD-ELP (I actually had business to do in Xiamen and Shanghai, so after HKG there was a short triangle flight in a Chinese airline that was NOT more expensive than 2 round trip flights: HKG-XMN-PVG-HKG).

            Immediately after making the reservations, I called both United and American to tell them that I was not going to take one of the legs. Both of them told me I can't do that and when I said "watch me", American said that if I don't show up for the 1st leg (ELP-DFW) then the full ticket will be cancelled and I would not be able to take the rest of the flights. The lady was still kind enough that she changed my reservation making the departure point DFW instead of ELP which, while was still more expensive than the ticket starting and ending in ELP, was about the same that the combined international round trip + the one-way IAH-DFW. United, instead, said that if I dropped the last leg it would be a no-show (even if I advised in advance, I just cannot cancel one leg of a ticket) and no money would be reimbursed. "Deal" I said. Not only did I drop the IAH-ELP leg, but sine I had a lot of time in IAH I was kind enough to walk to the United counter and tell them "Hey, something showed up, I need to go somewhere else before going to El Paso so I will not be taking this last leg, just letting you know you can sell the seat to somebody else". And he said "we can't do that and we can't do that, we cannot cancel one leg of your ticket". So I just said "ok" and walked away regretting of having taken the time to go to the United counter.

            By the way... The series of consecutive flights EZE-IAH-DFW-HKG-XMN took like 36 hours which, combined with the 14-hours time-zone difference, totally killed me. Next "morning"(?) I didn't know where in spacetime I was.

            Other scams that you need to navigate: A ticket from ELP to EZE via DFW and MIA was $400 more expensive PER HEAD (and we are 5 heads) than one round from ELP to MIA via DFW and one round from MIA to EZE. AND THEY WERE EXACTLY THE SAME FLIGHTS IN THE SAME DAYS!!!!
            Then I realized that I had enough miles for a round trip to EZE if I could get the cheap miles option, which of course wasn't available but I still had enough miles for one leg at the expensive miles option. The problem is that you cannot pay PART of a ticket with miles. So I divided the MIA-EZE-MIA round trip in 2 one-ways, one I would pay with miles and the other with money. Except that the one way was MORE EXPENSIVE THE THE ROUND. THAN THE WHOLE ROUND. So I would ending up paying more cash and depleting 60K miles. Nice deal!!!! Finally what I did was pay with miles the ELP-MIA (via DFW) round trip (also 60K miles), If you don't count the value of the miles, it was my cheapest flight to Argentina at below $1100 (and it could have been below $1000 had I booked a couple of days earlier when I started looking, but that's what it took to figure out this mess).

            To be honest, screw the free market, this is one point where I would not mind some regulations. This scheme (or scam) simply removes from the consumers the ability to compare and analyze what are the options, because the options move and change while you analyze them.

            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
              Welcome to the free market.... screw the free market...
              Still, they cannot charge you once for a service and then charge you again for not using it. Unless the governing body is corrupt.

              Oh, right...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                on another note, yesterday i had the distinct DISpleasure of flying on an older 737 configured as a MAX. absolutely despicable. biz class seating lost an amazing 4-5" of seat pitch! and shockingly, though it is still 2x2, the aisle is so friggin narrow even properly sized rollaboards have trouble rolling through. i couldn't bear to look in the back. but i'm sure it's a special kind of hell.
                Click image for larger version

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                Welcome to 22A in an American Airlines MD-80, last Sunday, ELP-DFW. And that's before the guy in 21A decided to recline his seat.
                I have to say that the next leg (DFW-MEX) was in a 737-800 disguised as a 787 (interior), and the nice surprise that 10B had more or less 2 more inches than the picture above which made all the difference between sheer pain, torture and suffering vs being just utterly uncomfortable. I don't know if row 10 has more legroom or if that was the standard economy seat legroom on that plane.

                I have a legal question. Not that I am going to do it, but could one make a legal complaint *(sue them?) because they sold me a product where I don't fit and they didn't specify the requirements to fit? And I am quite sure that if they do specify "people above 6'2" cannot fly economy and need to buy premium economy or better" would be "complainable" too since that would leave 2% of the population out and having to pay more just for being tall, which is out our our control, especially when they have seats where they HAVE to have extra legroom even if they didn't have premium economy (emergency rows, front seats...). That would be discrimination. I mean, they are required to have accessibility for handicapped people and offer special accommodations for which they they cannot charge, and they make much less than 2% of the population. I mean, it would be as easy as "if you are X high or more, you are entitled to a seat with more legroom for the economy price". And, what ends up happening, is that they don't sell all the economy-plus seats and end up sitting standby pax in those seats (without charging extra). Or, like happened in that flight of the picture, just before boarding... "We have 2 exit rows available, who wants to switch"? Unfortunately, 2 short women were closer and faster than me.

                That was in American, In United I had a different and repulsive experience which is the reason why I try to avoid Untied when I can. There I was, sitting very similar than in that picture (in fact even worse) about to start a 10-hours flight, and just in the very row in front of me, which was a front-seat row, there were 6 (SIX!!!) seats available. It was a 767, 2-3-2 config, and only 1 seat int hat row was occupied. I told the FA if it was ok if I switched seats and he said "Sure, let me bring the card reader". He went on to explain me that I needed to pay the difference in the fare between economy and premium economy. I said "but the seat is available, look at me, it's not that I am being picky, I literally don't feet here, you have all the seats available, that you didn't and you will not sell at the premium price, what's the difference for United if I seat here or there". And he said "I see, you are right. So, do you want to purchase the premium economy or not? ... Excuse me sir? (now to the only guy seating in that row), can I see your boarding pass? Oh no, you've got the wrong seat, your seat is back there, Yes, I understand that you intend to stay there, and I am happy to sell you the upgrade. Otherwise, I am instructing you to move to your assigned seat, sir you know that not complying with the crew instructions is a criminal offense? If you don't move to your seat now I will need to call security to escort you off the plane". And it was not that particular FA's behavior. Other FA's did the same in all of the 4 legs of that round trip.

                That was the last time I flew in UA. If that's how they appreciate my business to the point that they cannot accept doing a small favor to improve my customer experience at no cost whatsoever for them (and I men NO, nothing, not a peny, zero cost), then I am not interested in helping them get any profit. When I have other options for a comparable price, I will avoid them.

                --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                  When I have other options...
                  The essense of the problem right there. Now sit down or we send Robocop in to clock you over the head.
                  Attached Files

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                  • I am disabled in that (A) I cannot walk long distances and therefore need assistance. (B) I also need a seat belt extension. I can however sit in an over wing exit seat and I could probably open the emergency exit blindfolded. I am also quite capable of stepping out onto the wing and assist with an evacuation. Such a seat gives me the little bit more space to fit my legs into.
                    Unfortunately A and B above mean that I am not permitted to sit in these seats and I am forced to sit in a seat with my knees wedged apart in acute pain for the entire flight. I have tried to explain my situation but the flight crews maintain a totally intransigent attitude and relegate me to an unsuitable seat.
                    As a result I generally fly premium economy but why should I be forced to pay more when I am physically capable of operating the door and getting out ?
                    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
                      I am disabled in that (A) I cannot walk long distances and therefore need assistance. (B) I also need a seat belt extension. I can however sit in an over wing exit seat and I could probably open the emergency exit blindfolded. I am also quite capable of stepping out onto the wing and assist with an evacuation. Such a seat gives me the little bit more space to fit my legs into.
                      Unfortunately A and B above mean that I am not permitted to sit in these seats and I am forced to sit in a seat with my knees wedged apart in acute pain for the entire flight. I have tried to explain my situation but the flight crews maintain a totally intransigent attitude and relegate me to an unsuitable seat.
                      As a result I generally fly premium economy but why should I be forced to pay more when I am physically capable of operating the door and getting out ?
                      I don't know what you are talking about. Emergency row IS PREMIUM ECONOMY too!!!

                      More to the point, I think they have not choice in not letting you seat there. They have to take your word for how fit you are and, when you were taken to the plane in a wheelchair already and requested seat-belt extension, that will raise doubts. They are not experts and cannot assess every individual situation in detail. So they will err ion the side of general safety (over of your own health and safety) because, IF something bad happens AND you fail to perform as expected, SOMEONE WILL SUE the airline for sitting you there (even if the reason why you could not perform was not your initial condition.

                      That said, there are other seats with more legroom (including ones that they would have even if they did not have premium economy, like the front seats) and they could (and in my opinion should) offer you one of those seats at no extra charge.

                      --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                      --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                      Comment


                      • shit. let's all face the facts: WE have allowed airlines and air travel to devolve into absolute shyte. on one hand, we've gone hog wild with security (which couldn't catch a terrorist if it wanted to), and spend BILLIONS on this grossly incompetent government shitshow that does nothing but slow things down. oh, and confiscates TUNA SALAD from an 82 year old NATURAL BORN AMERICAN JEW, you know, the most likely terrorist out of everyone! now every moron flight attendant, in addition to having a shitty, entitled attitude, can now threaten and cause real harm to an innocent, stressed out passenger. we are crammed in like sardines into planes and nickel and dimed for everything.

                        at the same time, we've given airlines virtual carte blanche to do whatever they want when it comes to their contracts, customers, etc. i don't know much about very much in the world, but i'm fairly certain that no industry in the known universe is given as much latitude in screwing the public as airlines are. i've had clients that were chased to kingdom come by "consumer protection" agencies for charging unreasonable fees to consumers. i'm talking about fees in the range of $19.95. meanwhile, no one says diddly-squat about an airline charging a person $200 simply to allow that person to change his own ticket online!!! people selling all sorts of stuff online have been fined enormous amounts, ordered to sigorge profits and some jailed for intentionally burying essential terms so that the average person could not find them. meanwhile, taking just AA for example, i've heard upper level management admit that AA's terms, rules fees etc, are so complex and contradictory, they themselves have a hard time figuring out their nonsense.

                        rant over for now

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
                          at the same time, we've given airlines virtual carte blanche to do whatever they want when it comes to their contracts, customers, etc. i don't know much about very much in the world, but i'm fairly certain that no industry in the known universe is given as much latitude in screwing the public as airlines are...
                          Do you have a bank account?

                          Comment


                          • If consumer banks were airlines we'd all be dead by now.

                            If the banks were airlines, the seat frames would be motorized and there would be an app. By taking out 'credit' loans you could move the seat ahead of you further away, buying that 'real estate'. It would then reduce the legroom of the seat ahead, but that passenger would then have the option of taking out a loan to either 'foreclose' on your 'real estate' and reverse the seat back or buy more 'real estate' to move the seat ahead, and so on. Eventually, passengers buying the most 'real estate' would get all the legroom they deserve and the tightwads would have to fly with their legs tucked into their chest. Until someone misses a payment before the end of the flight. Your legroom is important to us. Please hold. Our current hold times exceed the duration of this flight. Additional fees apply. Goodbye.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
                              Do you have a bank account?
                              several. but perhaps you don't know that airlines are pretty much exempt from any oversight by anyone except select federal entities, al of whom are too busy and bought to give a shit. oh wait! you already knew that.

                              also, pretty shitty analogy on your part. i'd like to see a bank charge $200 for changing a savings account to a checking account. sure, they charge monthly fees for certain accounts/depositors and they charge overdraft fees--justified since you are using THEIR money.

                              Comment


                              • Most of my travelling these days is either to Malta or the Canary Islands which means Air Malta, Iberia or British Airways. All three make a charge for preselecting a seat and I avoid Iberia if I can as they make a stop in Madrid on the way to the Canaries whereas BA fly direct.
                                The airline documentation relating to seating in exit rows says that “the passenger must be able to confirm that they can operate the emergency door”. It does not say that the crew must assess the passenger. Last time I got thrown out of an exit seat I was replaced with a young girl who was 5 feet tall and weighed around 8 stone dripping wet ! She certainly didn’t need a legroom seat, didn’t have a clue how to open the door and during the preflight emergency talk she cuddled up with her earphones on and took absolutely no notice at all.
                                These days I now understand the term “walk on freight” !
                                If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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