The United debarcle

[brianw999]

He likes his seat. He paid for it just like you paid for yours. Why should HE move because of YOUR pain?

Please keep paramedicine out of it, I've been in EMS on and off since 1996, your situation is hardly typical.

You (expletive deleted) arrogant bastard ! You’re saying my situation is hardly typical ? You very obviously prove with that statement that you know fuck all about EMS operations here in the UK. The damage to my fitness was done over the years before we had powered cots, easyglide chairs, hydraulic lifts etc.
I went to a staff retirement party last week. There were about 8 to 10 retired staff around the same age and length of service as me. Every single one of them has got orthopaedic disabilities that severely impinge on their ability to live a reasonable life.
How much continuous service have you got ? I’ll wager not much. I see that you started in 1996 so you got it easy. Automated lifting and handling equipment was well established by then. I started in 1980 and put in 34 years of full time service. Oh yes, by the way, I also have 7 years service in the British Armed Forces Reserves as a Combat Medical Technician Class 1 to add to the physical wear and tear.

Gabriel is talking more sense than you are and I don’t think that he even has any medical background.

[Evan]

4) Look at the guy, he has his knees bent more than 90 degrees. In any flight of more that a couple of hours that is unbearable, it simply cuts the blood flow to your legs. If the guy had his lower legs and feet more forward, or as forward as they would go until his tibia bone hits the seat structure in front, his knees would be higher.

Yes, but the tibea, the legs below the knee, on a person this tall or taller, are lifting the back of the legs higher than they would be if the legs were extended beneath the seat in front in a reclined position. Doing so causes the knees to be lower than the pivot point of the seat, where new room becomes available with the seat reclined. At least that's how it works with my legs. It might not be roomier overall, but it shouldn't be less roomy.

Again, I don't recline unless it's that part of an overnight flight after meal service where we all get to recline. I don't do it at all on short daytime flights anymore (though I miss that). But asking us to snooze in the upright position is going too far.

You sound like you are a bit of a anomaly and there should be seats provided for such people. That should be a regulation requirement just as disability access is. No slight to Brian but most Americans are overweight because of choices they make (though not all), but being tall is certainly not (I made the choice to be tall and yet...).

[Evan]

ATTENTION MODS: Dying to know why you cannot post the word s l e e p without getting an error on this new forum.

Try it.

[Gabriel]

You sound like you are a bit of a anomaly and there should be seats provided for such people.

Define anomaly. I am certainly not average and I am taller than most, but I am not an outlier either. I am still well within the +/- 3 sigma population and, more specifically, I am in the 1%~2% percentile (or 99%~98% percentile, depending from which end you start) meaning that about 1%~2% of the adult males are as tall or taller than me. That should put a couple of as-tall-or-taller-than-me persons on every flight on average.

That said, I agree. The airlines always had seats with extra legroom, like exit rows and front rows. There was a time when these were economy seats and they were available for anybody for the same price. Now they are premium economy and cost 50% more. Airlines should make them available with priority for persons lets say above 6' 1" (90% percentile) for the same prize. It would have costed them NOTHING in the pre-premium-economy era and would still cost very little today.

[Evan]

Airlines should make them available with priority for persons lets say above 6' 1" (90% percentile) for the same prize. It would have costed them NOTHING in the pre-premium-economy era and would still cost very little today.

They should be REQUIRED to do this. That’s the only way it will ever get better.

[ATLcrew]

You (expletive deleted) arrogant bastard ! You’re saying my situation is hardly typical ? You very obviously prove with that statement that you know fuck all about EMS operations here in the UK. The damage to my fitness was done over the years before we had powered cots, easyglide chairs, hydraulic lifts etc.
I went to a staff retirement party last week. There were about 8 to 10 retired staff around the same age and length of service as me. Every single one of them has got orthopaedic disabilities that severely impinge on their ability to live a reasonable life.
How much continuous service have you got ? I’ll wager not much. I see that you started in 1996 so you got it easy. Automated lifting and handling equipment was well established by then. I started in 1980 and put in 34 years of full time service. Oh yes, by the way, I also have 7 years service in the British Armed Forces Reserves as a Combat Medical Technician Class 1 to add to the physical wear and tear.

Gabriel is talking more sense than you are and I don’t think that he even has any medical background.

I think the bigger difference is that I didn't get into EMS to beat people over the head with it. I do it for the right reason, namely the free coffee.

As an aside, my current agency didn't get powered stretchers until 2014.

Take it easy, Pops, I'd hate to see you succumb to a STEMI on my account. I'd never forgive myself.

[3WE]

More interestingly, 3WE, I am one of those polite travellers that asks the person behind me if it’s OK with them if I recline my seat.

That’s really sweet Gabriel. But as I say, no one ever asked me if it’s ok.

Because the seat is designed to recline and from 1920 to 2010, one could recline without drama.

You THINK the rules have changed, but your telepathic broadcast ability (and this forum) are not adequately informing the public.

Ironically, I think I saw a headline today where a FA threatened a passenger for installing a recliner lock.

While Evan does not understand the use of rudders and bicycle handle bars for steering, his earlier post, “tell us the rules” is spot on.

[Gabriel]

[QUOTE=3WE;n1081256]That’s really sweet Gabriel.[/quote
Thank you but the quote is not mine.

But as I say, no one ever asked me if it’s ok.

Because the seat is designed to recline and from 1920 to 2010, one could recline without drama.

You THINK the rules have changed, but your telepathic broadcast ability (and this forum) are not adequately informing the public.

I think that's ok and understandable. Never anybody asked me either, but a few times I did ask the person who have just reclined or attempted to recline the seat to please undo it explaining why, and in every case they complied (not always with a smile) for which I was very thankful.

It happened to me that once that I reclined my seat and they guy in the back got mad with me. I apologized and bring it back up, but the guy was mad with me and saying in a bad tone that I lacked respect and consideration and stuff like that. Since then I look back to see what kind/size of person in back before recline. If it is a tall person I don;t even attempt it. If it is a kid or very small person I slowly recline. If in between I ask, unless they are s l e e p ing and in that case I slowly recline watching that I don't touch them with the back of the seat.

The real problem is if you ask the person not to recline and they start ranting about their right to recline or intentionally ignoring the request. It never happened to me (yet), but I imagine that it does happen.

[Gabriel]

s l e e p ing.

Wow, it would not go through without the extra spaces.

[Evan]

I think that's ok and understandable. Never anybody asked me either, but a few times I did ask the person who have just reclined or attempted to recline the seat to please undo it explaining why, and in every case they complied (not always with a smile) for which I was very thankful.

Yes, they're not happy to discover that they must give up the only shred of comfort left to them. If you were behind me and complained when everyone was allowed to recline I wouldn't recline, as it obviously would cause you to suffer, but I would make a strong appeal to the FA to reseat you somewhere with no one in front of you or with more legroom, and, if that were not possible, to reseat you in premium economy or business class which is almost always available and, once the flight has departed, costs them nothing to offer.

[brianw999]

I should maybe make the point that my seating problems only apply on short haul flights within Europe where none of the airlines that go to where I want to go have a premium economy section. BA and Lufthansa have cut the seat pitch in their club class back to 30” and others are following suit. On long haul I fly premium economy or business class.
BA are charging for taking a bag in the hold and charging for seat selection at the time of booking. It can be done for free 48 hours prior to the flight but you run the risk of getting lumbered with a seat in the middle of 3. I need an aisle seat for maximum comfort and access to the toilets fairly quickly due to the medications that I am on. I am barred from sitting in exit row seats because I need mobility assistance and have to use a seat belt extension. It’s ironic that apart from the cabin crew I am probably one of the few that can open an overwing exit without having to refer to the instructions. On my last flight a young man sitting in the window exit seat was so drunk that he could barely stand up. Also, why am I barred from the middle and aisle seats in an exit row ? I won’t be the one opening the exit and I have no problem getting out of the aircraft. Do I have to go to the back of the queue to evacuate because I can’t walk long distances ?
To all you youngsters giving me shit about my life issues I have one thing to say. One day you will get old. When that happens you will learn a valuable lesson hopefully.

[3WE]

Thank you but the quote is not mine.

Noted.

Your quote was the strawman argument that I don't have the right to run over a kid.

Much like Brian's comment, it is similarly "sweet".

Please spare us the ethics- it has NEVER been cool to run over a kid, but for most of history the social norm was to recline (if you want) except for takeoff and landing- no permission needed.

Take your campaign for peace, love and harmony elsewhere. I mean, it's a great idea and all, but this isn't the place to change the world.

[CarolW]

[QUOTE=brianw999;n1081272....
To all you youngsters giving me shit about my life issues I have one thing to say. One day you will get old. When that happens you will learn a valuable lesson hopefully.[/QUOTE]

And I hope you youngsters DO get old. Flying is so much safer than it used to be. Just don't expect a ride on my broom; it's not all that safe. And yes, I am old, and having those lessons.

[TeeVee]

and, if that were not possible, to reseat you in premium economy or business class which is almost always available and, once the flight has departed, costs them nothing to offer.

reality check:

quite clearly you haven't flown recently or are flying some strange airline. almost every one of the nearly 100 flights i took last year--domestic and intl--was fully booked in both economy plus/first/biz. this includes AA, Copa, and Avianca. i also doubt VERY much that someone is gonna get a free upgrade because of discomfort.

[pegasus]

Interestingly, I am told that if 10 people were to get together and rent a private jet to fly within Europe the cost per seat would not be much more than a scheduled airline business class seat cost.

More interestingly, 3WE, I am one of those polite travellers that asks the person behind me if it’s OK with them if I recline my seat.

ATL wrote.....I'll rephrase: what if the guy seated in front of Brian has herniated discs and will be in great pain if he does NOT recline? Why is Brian's pain the only one that matters?

Easily fixed ..... We swap seats. He can then recline to relieve his pain,

Gabriel wrote......I don't know what blame does Brian carry regarding his knee conditions and "size". But I have no control whatsoever over my height (and while I am higher than most, I a am not an outlier either. Being in about the 1% percentile you can expect a few of us on average in every flight.

I am just over 6 feet tall with an inside leg measurement of 32”. That creates the start of the problem in a 30” or less seat pitch but my personal issues are 34 years of working as a paramedic lifting and carrying the lame and lazy, working 12hr shifts which very regularly turn into 14hrs with a late call out, getting a 30 minute meal break if I am very lucky and eating fast food as result. Taking healthy food with me was not an option as we generally took our breaks on the run with no fridge availability.
As a result of this I suffer from bone on bone bilateral knee arthritis, am overweight and cannot exercise to lose weight so my orthopaedic surgeon refuses to give me new knees which would fix my problems at a stroke.

Half a lifetime devoted to public service ‘ain’t all its cracked up to be is it ?

May I commend to you Dr Sten Ekberg on YouTube. He has some interesting thoughts on nutrition and weight loss.