The United debarcle

[BoeingBobby]

But the G5 is not a single-pilot jet, is it? You will need an FO.... or... on a second thought... I would need one.

Are you G5-rated?

If you can afford the Gulfstream, you can afford to send me to FlightSafety for the type. I have a couple of dozen ex 74 Captains to fill the right seat no problem. You would need to have a touch more experience before any insurance company would let you be PIC I'm afraid. Not to mention a multi and instrument rating.

[Evan]

Oh yes it does get absolutely horribly worse. How could leaning the back of the seat in front of your knees back towards your knees not reduce the clearance (if any) between that seat back and your knees? On the other hand, leaning your own torso back doesn't change either the position of your knees or of the seat back in front of your knees.

Is it clear or you need a picture? (and judging by how he is seated not fully against his own back and he still have some small clearance between his knees and the back of the seat in front, I am taller than this guy).

Yes, but the seat in front of this guy is not reclined. The pivot point for the seat is at about the armrests, so as the seat back comes toward you, the seat moves away from you. It appears to me from this photo that the recline does not affect knee room if all the seats are reclined. Especially if the person straightens out his legs rather than bending them when reclined.

But you own the tall passenger credentials on this forum.

[Gabriel]

Interestingly, I am told that if 10 people were to get together and rent a private jet to fly within Europe the cost per seat would not be much more than a scheduled airline business class seat cost.

More interestingly, 3WE, I am one of those polite travellers that asks the person behind me if it’s OK with them if I recline my seat.

ATL wrote.....I'll rephrase: what if the guy seated in front of Brian has herniated discs and will be in great pain if he does NOT recline? Why is Brian's pain the only one that matters?

Easily fixed ..... We swap seats. He can then recline to relieve his pain,

Gabriel wrote......I don't know what blame does Brian carry regarding his knee conditions and "size". But I have no control whatsoever over my height (and while I am higher than most, I a am not an outlier either. Being in about the 1% percentile you can expect a few of us on average in every flight.

I am just over 6 feet tall with an inside leg measurement of 32”. That creates the start of the problem in a 30” or less seat pitch but my personal issues are 34 years of working as a paramedic lifting and carrying the lame and lazy, working 12hr shifts which very regularly turn into 14hrs with a late call out, getting a 30 minute meal break if I am very lucky and eating fast food as result. Taking healthy food with me was not an option as we generally took our breaks on the run with no fridge availability.
As a result of this I suffer from bone on bone bilateral knee arthritis, am overweight and cannot exercise to lose weight so my orthopaedic surgeon refuses to give me new knees which would fix my problems at a stroke.

Half a lifetime devoted to public service ‘ain’t all its cracked up to be is it ?

For the record, I am not among the ones that think that being overweight is a choice. But I did hear that said as an argument and, while I am against it, it is arguable, since in most cases being overweight is the result of the things that one does (and of other things that one doesn't do). I have the opinion that some types of decisions are not just voluntary and the result of simple free will and, while they can be accomplished, for some persons it takes more than that (like therapy, medication, coaching, work accommodations, and family emotional and material support).

I used a tall person (me in this case) as an example where such an argument would just not work. Short of cutting your legs, there is no decision or "healthy habit" that one can implement to reduce one's height (or to never be too tall in the first place). While some persons can blame an overweight person for being overweight, nobody can blame a tall person for being tall.

[Gabriel]

All you guys that are bitching about leg room. Buy a G-5 and hire me to fly you around. Lots of leg room, eat what you ordered and no TSA! PM me for my resume.

But the G5 is not a single-pilot jet, is it? You will need an FO.... or... on a second thought... I would need one.

Are you G5-rated?

[Gabriel]

It doesn't get any worse though, does it? You would know more than me. Anyway, on long haul I'm reclining. (little dot is not a question mark)

Oh yes it does get absolutely horribly worse. How could leaning the back of the seat in front of your knees back towards your knees not reduce the clearance (if any) between that seat back and your knees? On the other hand, leaning your own torso back doesn't change either the position of your knees or of the seat back in front of your knees.

Is it clear or you need a picture? (and judging by how he is seated not fully against his own back and he still have some small clearance between his knees and the back of the seat in front, I am taller than this guy).

[CarolW]

Interestingly, I am told that if 10 people were to get together and rent a private jet to fly within Europe the cost per seat would not be much more than a scheduled airline business class seat cost.

....More interestingly, 3WE, I am one of those polite travellers that asks the person behind me if it’s OK with them if I recline my seat.....

That creates the start of the problem in a 30” or less seat pitch but my personal issues are 34 years of working as a paramedic lifting and carrying the lame and lazy, working 12hr shifts which very regularly turn into 14hrs with a late call out, getting a 30 minute meal break if I am very lucky and eating fast food as result. Taking healthy food with me was not an option as we generally took our breaks on the run with no fridge availability.
As a result of this I suffer from bone on bone bilateral knee arthritis, am overweight and cannot exercise to lose weight so my orthopaedic surgeon refuses to give me new knees which would fix my problems at a stroke.

Half a lifetime devoted to public service ‘ain’t all its cracked up to be is it ?

Please allow me to thank you for your service. Paramedics provide some of the most crucial services in the world. I never had to avail myself of them till the last few years (I'm 83), but we have GREAT paramedics where I live, and they are worth more than anyone could imagine. Paramedics largely go unthanked and hugely underpaid. Twelve-hour shifts are ridiculous.



I expect and trust pilots are treated better. So many lives depend on THAT, too.

[Evan]

If you can afford the Gulfstream, you can certainly afford me.

Oh, I thought you meant the smartphone.

[brianw999]

All you guys that are bitching about leg room. Buy a G-5 and hire me to fly you around. Lots of leg room, eat what you ordered and no TSA! PM me for my resume.

Interestingly, I am told that if 10 people were to get together and rent a private jet to fly within Europe the cost per seat would not be much more than a scheduled airline business class seat cost.

More interestingly, 3WE, I am one of those polite travellers that asks the person behind me if it’s OK with them if I recline my seat.

ATL wrote.....I'll rephrase: what if the guy seated in front of Brian has herniated discs and will be in great pain if he does NOT recline? Why is Brian's pain the only one that matters?

Easily fixed ..... We swap seats. He can then recline to relieve his pain,

Gabriel wrote......I don't know what blame does Brian carry regarding his knee conditions and "size". But I have no control whatsoever over my height (and while I am higher than most, I a am not an outlier either. Being in about the 1% percentile you can expect a few of us on average in every flight.

I am just over 6 feet tall with an inside leg measurement of 32”. That creates the start of the problem in a 30” or less seat pitch but my personal issues are 34 years of working as a paramedic lifting and carrying the lame and lazy, working 12hr shifts which very regularly turn into 14hrs with a late call out, getting a 30 minute meal break if I am very lucky and eating fast food as result. Taking healthy food with me was not an option as we generally took our breaks on the run with no fridge availability.
As a result of this I suffer from bone on bone bilateral knee arthritis, am overweight and cannot exercise to lose weight so my orthopaedic surgeon refuses to give me new knees which would fix my problems at a stroke.

Half a lifetime devoted to public service ‘ain’t all its cracked up to be is it ?

[BoeingBobby]

I can spring for the G5 but I don't think we can afford you.

If you can afford the Gulfstream, you can certainly afford me.

[Evan]

Wrong. The distance between your knees and the back of the seat in front of you doesn't improve when you recline your seat, and in some newer seats it actually diminishes if you do.

It doesn't get any worse though, does it? You would know more than me. Anyway, on long haul I'm reclining. (little dot is not a question mark)

[Evan]

All you guys that are bitching about leg room. Buy a G-5 and hire me to fly you around. Lots of leg room, eat what you ordered and no TSA! PM me for my resume.

I can spring for the G5 but I don't think we can afford you.

[BoeingBobby]

All you guys that are bitching about leg room. Buy a G-5 and hire me to fly you around. Lots of leg room, eat what you ordered and no TSA! PM me for my resume.

[Gabriel]

If EVERYONE reclines, nobody loses space.

Wrong. The distance between your knees and the back of the seat in front of you doesn't improve when you recline your seat, and in some newer seats it actually diminishes if you do.

[Evan]

Try this:

post the word

s l e e p

(without the spaces)

See what happens.

[Evan]

What about when the FA's finish the meal service and tell everyone to close their windowshade on those overnight long haul flights? I like to have the window open, and people have those free eyemasks, but whatever, I comply. Then we all get to recline so that we can get some shuteye.

If EVERYONE reclines, nobody loses space. If the person behind me chooses not to recline at that point, tough titties man.

We don't need locks or morality lessons. We just need the FA's to tell us when we can and cannot recline.