The United debarcle

[LH-B744]

Carol, slightly off topic, but I’ve found your new mode of transport ! ........ https://youtu.be/FCPGQg2eRL8

Don't you try to discourage such a shiny brilliant new jetphotos member!

Her signature 'broom navigator' is so cute, in an aviation forum. And you also hope that Vancouver International again is on the schedule of an airline near you.

It's really funny, I mentioned a story without names, and the man who theoretically should own the nickname 'BA-B742 Landor' answers. Greetings.

And let's hope that all the loyal customers find the way back to their favorite airline. Whichever airline that might be..

[LH-B744]

Really! That's my area! But I can't spot from my actual location. YYJ is closer to me, yet still out of my reach for spotting.

You don't get discouraged by men who are as old as me, don't you. And there is really no reason. Even the oldest among us Senior Members [... ..] at the end are, friendly! As it is promised in the subtitle of this brilliant aviation platform: 'The friendly way to fly.'

You don't believe me, or you still don't know what I meant when I said, Let's Vancouver Intl come back to life?
Let me show you another jetphoto, by one of the jet photographers who also still like four engined long haul jets.. The explanation is in this photo:

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9560284

Due to that damn disease, that beautiful bird today does not arrive everywhere where it normally arrives.. And where does such a ABVP, which pilots often call the Victor Papa, arrive under normal conditions?

Well. One jetphoto says more than 1000 words!

PS: You might wonder why I don't show an Air Canada jet. Well, as I assume the Air Canada aircraft type which takes off from Vancouver Intl would clearly depend on the destination. With my favorite airline it is easier for me, only 1 aircraft type in the summer schedule 2020 for CYVR...

[CarolW]

You don't get discouraged by men who are as old as me, don't you. And there is really no reason. Even the oldest among us Senior Members [... ..] at the end are, friendly! As it is promised in the subtitle of this brilliant aviation platform: 'The friendly way to fly.'

You don't believe me, or you still don't know what I meant when I said, Let's Vancouver Intl come back to life?
Let me show you another jetphoto, by one of the jet photographers who also still like four engined long haul jets.. The explanation is in this photo:

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9560284

Due to that damn disease, that beautiful bird today does not arrive everywhere where it normally arrives.. And where does such a ABVP, which pilots often call the Victor Papa, arrive under normal conditions?

Well. One jetphoto says more than 1000 words!

PS: You might wonder why I don't show an Air Canada jet. Well, as I assume the Air Canada aircraft type which takes off from Vancouver Intl would clearly depend on the destination. With my favorite airline it is easier for me, only 1 aircraft type in the summer schedule 2020 for CYVR...

What a fabulous photo; thanks! And watch out; I'm almost twice your age!

I like to keep one eye on YVR, another on YYJ, and the third, here

P.S. I try not to cringe at the misspelling of "debacle!"

[Evan]

On a June 30 flight on American Airlines from Dallas to Newark, Joy Gonzalez, an aviation engineer based in Seattle, found herself seated at a window with two older passengers beside her in the middle and aisle seats. In order to gain more social distance, she and the aisle passenger both moved to seats behind them where two rows were empty. But before takeoff, a flight attendant ordered them back to their assigned seats, telling them they had not paid for those exit row seats, which are more expensive.

Ross Feinstein, a spokesman for the airline, wrote in an email that the restriction “appears to be in error, as we are permitting customers to move within the main cabin, including Main Cabin Extra seats,” which include exit rows.

It's endemic. Wherever they are finding these sociopathic flight attendents, they just seem to be going back for more. It's cultural. It's control culture.

In the past I've always said obey the flight attendents and complain later, for safety reasons, but now we have situations where obeying them is a safety risk. So what do you do then?

[flashcrash]

It's endemic. Wherever they are finding these sociopathic flight attendents, they just seem to be going back for more. It's cultural. It's control culture.

In the past I've always said obey the flight attendents and complain later, for safety reasons, but now we have situations where obeying them is a safety risk. So what do you do then?

There could be an interesting legal challenge here if Ms Gonzalez and the aisle passenger feel sufficiently aggrieved. Given the airline's capacity limitation policy, what was a passenger doing in the middle seat anyway? For AA frequent flyers wondering if it's safe to travel with the airline once again, this is bad news. After all, if the reason for moving within your assigned cabin is a well-documented, clearly visible and government endorsed concern for your own safety, the flight attendant's authority to define your seating position takes second place. So much for AA's "Additional Flexibility":

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details...5/default.aspx

[Evan]

Given the airline's capacity limitation policy, what was a passenger doing in the middle seat anyway?

I'm reading a lot of comments from people claiming that AA is packing planes without regard for public safety. If I had to fly right now, it wouldn't be on American.

But, as to the policy of not sitting in a seat you didn't pay for, AA just got a public bailout, so, yeah, I paid for that seat, that seat, that seat and your salary. You work for me now.

[kent olsen]

United what? United who? They are looking at 36,000 layoffs. Where is this going? I'm glad my career in aviation is over. I positioned to Europe and Asia on United many times, they were all good memories.

[flashcrash]

I'm reading a lot of comments from people claiming that AA is packing planes without regard for public safety.

Indeed. Looks like American has quietly killed off its capacity limitation policy. In fact, there's a US senator (Jeff Merkley) proposing legislation that would effectively force AA to stop putting passengers in middle seats. From his Twitter account: "@AmericanAir: how many Americans will die bc you fill middle seats, w/ your customers shoulder to shoulder, hour after hour? This is incredibly irresponsible". Worth opening a separate safety thread on middle seats?

[3WE]

It's control culture.

I think it's actually more complex...

[Evan]

United what? United who? They are looking at 36,000 layoffs. Where is this going? I'm glad my career in aviation is over. I positioned to Europe and Asia on United many times, they were all good memories.

Kent, this thread began as a thread about United but it has since become our general gripe thread about passenger abuse and the horror of flying in the race-to-the-bottom age. You got out at the right time.

[Evan]

Indeed. Looks like American has quietly killed off its capacity limitation policy. In fact, there's a US senator (Jeff Merkley) proposing legislation that would effectively force AA to stop putting passengers in middle seats. From his Twitter account: "@AmericanAir: how many Americans will die bc you fill middle seats, w/ your customers shoulder to shoulder, hour after hour? This is incredibly irresponsible". Worth opening a separate safety thread on middle seats?

It overlooks 2-3 commuter plane seating. Do you fly only three seats per row? On a 737 you can fill to 2/3rds capacity. On an E-jet you can only do 3/5ths.

[Gabriel]

As far as I know, American United and Delta are (and had been) blocking the middle seats capacity permitting, since the beginning. Thye never stop offering the seats as available. The problem is that 1~2 months ago the planes were almost empty so capacity was permitting almost only, but now, between the cuts in capacity and the increase in passengers willing to fly, the capacity is not permitting more frequently.

I suppose that this must be common across the industry rather than airline-specific.

[3WE]

Lots of headlines that change fees are going away.

[TeeVee]

right. at a time when airlines have 1.5 feet in the grave.

it's a ploy to get people to buy tickets and raise cash. once this shit passes/vaccine works, those effin fees will be back faster than you can say ripoff. they generate BILLIONS in revenue at ZERO cost to airlines.

[3WE]

right. at a time when airlines have 1.5 feet in the grave.

it's a ploy to get people to buy tickets and raise cash. once this shit passes/vaccine works, those effin fees will be back faster than you can say ripoff. they generate BILLIONS in revenue at ZERO cost to airlines.

Generally agree, but I also see a lawsuit risk, where someone catches ‘rona, but is forced to take his flight...NO REFUND AND NO CHANGES UNLESS YOU PAY DEARLY...