The United debarcle

[TeeVee]

it was a sealed packet. dont remember the brand. but it was RANK!

[ATLcrew]

typical crap. i too got placed on the no-fly list for what i suspect resulted from telling a, how shall i put it, "very feminine male" f/a, what i thought about him. this was a result of him telling me i should just "deal with it" after i pointed out the rotten, disgusting, green mayo, that came out of the packet accompanying my aa-catered sandwich.

i never got to corporate security or anywhere near that level. i missed a single flight, made several calls as a then platinum aadvantage member. dont recall who eventually fixed the issue, but i can tell you that they never told me the reason. they refunded my missed trip ticket cost but that was it.

today i probably wouldnt bother calling. i would simply file a lawsuit and seek everything in discovery.

Airline mayo, green or otherwise...you're a braver man than yours truly. Then again, I don't like mayo in general, so no big loss for me.

[TeeVee]

typical crap. i too got placed on the no-fly list for what i suspect resulted from telling a, how shall i put it, "very feminine male" f/a, what i thought about him. this was a result of him telling me i should just "deal with it" after i pointed out the rotten, disgusting, green mayo, that came out of the packet accompanying my aa-catered sandwich.

i never got to corporate security or anywhere near that level. i missed a single flight, made several calls as a then platinum aadvantage member. dont recall who eventually fixed the issue, but i can tell you that they never told me the reason. they refunded my missed trip ticket cost but that was it.

today i probably wouldnt bother calling. i would simply file a lawsuit and seek everything in discovery.

[3WE]

A fun one for TeeVee. A fellow pax from the AA
no-fly list

Sorry, this forum is a PITA to post URLs.

Try Google for “woman on AA no fly list”. It’s been a month and they’ve done nothing to reimburse her for her flight or the more expensive ticket.

Update: I tried ~6 times to post this link, but denied every time

[Evan]

i do need to add this tiny tidbit to the argument: you CANNOT compare healthcare and insurance in long-established social democracies where doctors make FAR FAR less than they do in the US and where healthcare facilities are owned by the government to the US where it is all exactly opposite.

apples to rocks.

In Germany at least, you are mostly seeing doctors in private practices. They do not work for the government. They decide whether to accept public insurance or limit themselves to the privately insured. Many accept public insurance. That should tell you something. They don't make a king's ransom like in the US, nor should they. They do very well however. There is no lack of incentive to become a medical practitioner.

You are confusing health care with health insurance.

[TeeVee]

i do need to add this tiny tidbit to the argument: you CANNOT compare healthcare and insurance in long-established social democracies where doctors make FAR FAR less than they do in the US and where healthcare facilities are owned by the government to the US where it is all exactly opposite.

apples to rocks.

[TeeVee]

Wait. What is the deductible? And do you make the deductible? And if you do, how much do you still need to keep laying in terms of copay?
You need to compare the health plan cost + the total out-of-the-ocket expenses to compare apples to apples.

I have a high-deductible insurance plan, and I generally make the deductible towards the end of the year which means that during most of the year I have to pay 100% for everything (including prescriptions) except preventive care.

The only reasons why I pay the insurance are:
1) That 100% (full price) is the full price negotiated between the provider and the insurance, which is x times lower than if you go without insurance. That by itself makes no sense. It doesn't cost more, or offer more value, to get the service from the provider without insurance than with. Rather the opposite. With insurance the provider has to do a lot of paperwork.
2) I can benefit from the $1500 that my employer puts in my HSA.
3) This is the most important one: The plan has a maximum out-of-the pocket after which everything (that qualifies) is covered at 100%. I never came remotely close to that maximum out of the pocket, but it acts as a sort of a catastrophe insurance. If I have an accident, they air-lift me, they have to do several reconstructive operations, and I spend many days in hospital including several days in ICU, that can cost literally millions of dollars. But with the insurance I know that, whatever happens, I may end up spending a lot of money but not a radically-life-changing amount of money.

deductible is $6k for the whole family. thankfully, i havent had to meet the deductible, since we've been healthy. if i do have to one day, it would be amortized over all the years i've had coverage, so still far less.

i was uninsured for years and paid cash for doctor visits and testing. guess what? it was cheaper. sure, if something horrible had happened....but it didn't. negotiated rates are very often WAY higher than self-pay, especially for drugs.

[Evan]

Wait. What is the deductible? And do you make the deductible? And if you do, how much do you still need to keep laying in terms of copay?
You need to compare the health plan cost + the total out-of-the-ocket expenses to compare apples to apples.

I have a high-deductible insurance plan, and I generally make the deductible towards the end of the year which means that during most of the year I have to pay 100% for everything (including prescriptions) except preventive care.

The only reasons why I pay the insurance are:
1) That 100% (full price) is the full price negotiated between the provider and the insurance, which is x times lower than if you go without insurance. That by itself makes no sense. It doesn't cost more, or offer more value, to get the service from the provider without insurance than with. Rather the opposite. With insurance the provider has to do a lot of paperwork.
2) I can benefit from the $1500 that my employer puts in my HSA.
3) This is the most important one: The plan has a maximum out-of-the pocket after which everything (that qualifies) is covered at 100%. I never came remotely close to that maximum out of the pocket, but it acts as a sort of a catastrophe insurance. If I have an accident, they air-lift me, they have to do several reconstructive operations, and I spend many days in hospital including several days in ICU, that can cost literally millions of dollars. But with the insurance I know that, whatever happens, I may end up spending a lot of money but not a radically-life-changing amount of money.

Facing a crisis of uninsured millions straining the healthcare system (and basic human rights impulses), Liberal lawmakers sought to provide Americans with the same dignity as that of modern social democracies around the world, modeling the plan on nations such as Germany. Critical to the success of such plans is a public option for those who cannot afford private insurance. The public option is not free to working people but remains affordable and—this is the important part—is mandatory. With more people paying in to the system, the system is better funded to cover those who need medical care. This is social democracy (not Marxism): sharing burdens and resources that are considered essential to civilized society.

Republicans in Congress we’re having none of this. They pledged to defeat any sort of public option. Despite the Dems having a simple majority in both houses, they managed to play the Dems by feigning a bipartisan effort, but in reality, is it the Republicans who ensured that the insurance industry would write the bill. Without the public option, AHCA was never going to achieve its goals. But it did get millions on health insurance who did not have previous coverage.

About people on welfare: public welfare is there to sustain the economy and prevent another Great Depression. It is a pass-through subsidy for industry. All legally-spent welfare money ends up in the hands of industry. It keeps production up and sustains jobs. It also sustains universal human dignity. Yes, many abuse it but many abuse capitalism as well (and far more egregiously). And most people on welfare have social or mental or learning disabilities that keep them from rising to more rewarding lives. Most are not simply lazy. Most are shut out of the job market above the most menial, spirit-crushing jobs. That is a societal problem that society needs to acknowledge and fund solutions for.

Capitalism has its victims: they are built in. Welfare is the price capitalism must pay to succeed. And capitalism comes out very well in the bargain.

[Gabriel]

i pay $24,000/year to cover my entire family..

Wait. What is the deductible? And do you make the deductible? And if you do, how much do you still need to keep laying in terms of copay?
You need to compare the health plan cost + the total out-of-the-ocket expenses to compare apples to apples.

I have a high-deductible insurance plan, and I generally make the deductible towards the end of the year which means that during most of the year I have to pay 100% for everything (including prescriptions) except preventive care.

The only reasons why I pay the insurance are:
1) That 100% (full price) is the full price negotiated between the provider and the insurance, which is x times lower than if you go without insurance. That by itself makes no sense. It doesn't cost more, or offer more value, to get the service from the provider without insurance than with. Rather the opposite. With insurance the provider has to do a lot of paperwork.
2) I can benefit from the $1500 that my employer puts in my HSA.
3) This is the most important one: The plan has a maximum out-of-the pocket after which everything (that qualifies) is covered at 100%. I never came remotely close to that maximum out of the pocket, but it acts as a sort of a catastrophe insurance. If I have an accident, they air-lift me, they have to do several reconstructive operations, and I spend many days in hospital including several days in ICU, that can cost literally millions of dollars. But with the insurance I know that, whatever happens, I may end up spending a lot of money but not a radically-life-changing amount of money.

[TeeVee]

TeeVee, AHCA is a mess because Obama naively tried to make it bipartisan and the obstructionist Republicans decimated it, particularly in removing the public option. The Dems ultimately had to ram it through Congress even after compromising away the vital aspects. I’ll never forgive them for not ramming it through intact on day one. Then we would all be raving about it.

It’s nice that you were happy with your old, expensive plan that many could not afford. Do you realize that they had no health insurance options? A major part of the population? Or could you care less?

Taxes: calculate what the monthly tax increase would amount to for a working class earner if the US was at the German rates. Now compare that to what you pay monthly for healthcare and insurance. If you have any kind of health issues that need care, I guarantee that you end up with more money at the higher tax levels with German health insurance. And my New York City taxation levels (Federal, State and City) approached those same levels.

YOU ARE TRULY DELUSIONAL!

the friggin insurance companies wrote the damn law, which is why they are all silently extremely happy. dont blame the political parties for anything other than failing to actually be lawMAKERS.

a major part of the US population has lived on welfare for generations. does that bother you? it sure bothers me! welfare, HUD, foodstamps, medicaid...all for young healthy people that if it werent for the fact that they are lazy as f*ck, could be working and paying their own way.

as for you whacky argument about a working class earner, the poor slob would have 29,000 after taxes. he couldnt pay rent let alone health insurance. so get of your marxist horse.

i pay $24,000/year to cover my entire family. if i were paying 42% tax on my income i'd be broke, given the rest of my expenses. but i'm gonna end this argument here, cuz i learned a long time ago, you can never convince a socialist that socialism is, has been, and always will be a failure.

[Evan]

it appears you dont know as much about health insurance and economies in general as you do about aviation. AHCA is a total failure in real life. the only group of people that don't absolutely hate it and have stayed quiet about it are insurance companies. why? their profits have effin soared!!!! a good idea in theory but what a giant clusterf###k it is.

prior to obama's baby being born and forced upon EVERYONE, even those that had insurance and were happy with it (like me), i enjoyed a fantastic Aetna POS plan with a whopping $2,000/year deductible and maybe a $25 co-pay for specialists. that plan, nor anything even close to it, exists today at any price. why? cause AHCA doesnt require it to.

now, back to your lame-ass argument.

well, let's see. germany's income tax rates are:
62,810 - 277,825 euros: 42%
More than 277,826 euros: 45%


not sure what "northern Europe" is in your brain, but let's sample a few of those.

Netherlands:
37,149 -- 73,031: 36.93%
73,031 and above: 49.50%

Denmark: as high as 55.90%

Belgium: income greater than 46,660 tax is 50%

shall we continue?

oh yeah! the highest tax bracket in the US is 35%

TeeVee, AHCA is a mess because Obama naively tried to make it bipartisan and the obstructionist Republicans decimated it, particularly in removing the public option. The Dems ultimately had to ram it through Congress even after compromising away the vital aspects. I’ll never forgive them for not ramming it through intact on day one. Then we would all be raving about it.

It’s nice that you were happy with your old, expensive plan that many could not afford. Do you realize that they had no health insurance options? A major part of the population? Or could you care less?

Taxes: calculate what the monthly tax increase would amount to for a working class earner if the US was at the German rates. Now compare that to what you pay monthly for healthcare and insurance. If you have any kind of health issues that need care, I guarantee that you end up with more money at the higher tax levels with German health insurance. And my New York City taxation levels (Federal, State and City) approached those same levels.

[TeeVee]

And yet, some countries do pull it off very well. This is like saying very few airlines are top notch, so we shouldn't try to be a top notch airline. The United States could have the best universally affordable health care system in the world, if only the boogeymen and cynics would stand aside and let that happen (Remember how the Affordable Health Care Act was certain to bring about "death panels"?). Begin with pricing caps and accountability. Add a public/private health insurance market that subsidizes low-income people while pushing wealthier people into private insurance. Ban copays and limit deductibles to below $50. Require health insurance to be actual health insurance. Provide free public university for medical studies and expand the pool of medical resources to reduce wait times for procedures.

Few countries pull this off very well. But Germany and Northern Europe pull this off very well. Why can't the US do the same?

Oh, right, boogeymen and cynics...

it appears you dont know as much about health insurance and economies in general as you do about aviation. AHCA is a total failure in real life. the only group of people that don't absolutely hate it and have stayed quiet about it are insurance companies. why? their profits have effin soared!!!! a good idea in theory but what a giant clusterf###k it is.

prior to obama's baby being born and forced upon EVERYONE, even those that had insurance and were happy with it (like me), i enjoyed a fantastic Aetna POS plan with a whopping $2,000/year deductible and maybe a $25 co-pay for specialists. that plan, nor anything even close to it, exists today at any price. why? cause AHCA doesnt require it to.

now, back to your lame-ass argument.

well, let's see. germany's income tax rates are:
62,810 - 277,825 euros: 42%
More than 277,826 euros: 45%


not sure what "northern Europe" is in your brain, but let's sample a few of those.

Netherlands:
37,149 -- 73,031: 36.93%
73,031 and above: 49.50%

Denmark: as high as 55.90%

Belgium: income greater than 46,660 tax is 50%

shall we continue?

oh yeah! the highest tax bracket in the US is 35%

[Evan]

I thought those were the good guys who questioned cold O-rings and secret nose-over systems?

You mean skeptics? Nothing wrong with skepticism if it is actually cautious skepticism and not knee-jerk cynicism.

[3WE]

***cynics***

I thought those were the good guys who questioned cold O-rings and secret nose-over systems?

[3WE]

Last time I went to a restaurant, Evan told me I had to wear a mask.