Originally posted by ATLcrew
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Lear 35 down approaching Teterboro
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I have a buddy who has done really well in his business and has a Lear with a pilot on his staff. (They contract for the SIC and use a few different ones for their trips.) I forwarded the link to him but I have to ask after watching it, how is it even conceivable that a professional pilot could be such a complete f*up? I mean, thinking you are still hundreds of miles from the airport when the entire flight is 25 minutes? He had to be drunk, no?
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Originally posted by Evan View PostMy take is that he did not know he was not good at it. He was 'coaching' the SIC the entire time. When he finally took over, he performed a hairbrained 'i got this' maneuver that simply oozes with misguided self-confidence.
Quickly followed by 'I don't got this..."
If retrospect, I think LEAR's should be required to have an airspeed indicator. Oh, no, wait, there was one... it was the SIC repeatedly saying "airspeed".
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostHe knew he was not good at it?
Quickly followed by 'I don't got this..."
If retrospect, I think LEAR's should be required to have an airspeed indicator. Oh, no, wait, there was one... it was the SIC repeatedly saying "airspeed".
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Crash During Circling Approach to Runway 1 at Teterboro AirportTeterboro AirportTeterboro, New Jersey May 15, 2017CEN17FA183This two-dimensional animated rec...
SIC was not authorized to be PF, but the PIC made the SIC fly the plane anyway.
Several times the SIC wanted to transfer control to the PIC, who refused, until in short final and with the plane totally out of position to make a landing the SIC finally gave up and the PIC didn't have other option than take control and, instead of performing a go-around, performed almost an aerobatic maneuver to try to line up with the runway with the known consequences.
It looks to me that the PIC had good reasons not to take the controls and he knew it.
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NTSB determination, for completeness:
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Originally posted by LH-B744 View PostNEvidence? "Sully The Film" (2016), where Sullenberger as senior advisor and reason for the film appeared at the end.
In reality, aside from some compressor stall exhaust pipe flame, there shouldn't have been anything shooting out of the engines aside from—maybe—a very thin amount of smoke, and I doubt it would be visible from any distance.
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Originally posted by LH-B744 View PostFlight Captain Chesley Sullenberger in his Airbus A320 is a hero in my eyes. Sullenberger deserves a golden star with a diamond because his decision is unique, until today. And why?
Because he knew what his a/c is able to do, in a jet with ZERO engines running.
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Originally posted by LH-B744 View PostGabriel, but you don't wanna tell me that you do all this inflight, with only 1 of 2 engines, or only 2 of 4 engines running.
And, most important, you shall not exceed your airplanes's and your personal limitations. If, in the middle of the flight where you cannot do all this math, you find that a normal turn is not enough to align with the runway, you don't tighten the turn, you go around. That's the equivalent of the pause button in the flight simulator. It gives you time to stay off trouble and evaluate your options.
And I don't know where you got that not all engines were running...
Flight Captain Chesley Sullenberger in his Airbus A320 is a hero in my eyes. Sullenberger deserves a golden star with a diamond because his decision is unique, until today. And why?
Because he knew what his a/c is able to do, in a jet with ZERO engines running. And he still knows how to get the best results in an A320. Evidence
As he said: "The Hudson was the only surface wide enough, long enough and smooth enough that I KNEW where within reach". The most important part of that statement is "I KNEW". If the investigation had demonstrated that La Guardia or Teterboro were not that marginal and were reasonably easy to reach, that would not have change my view of him. Up there and facing this hard decision, he didn't know what the investigation would reveal latter and he didn't have the means, tools or time to make that calculation himself.
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If I'm allowed to only add one very short comparison. Sometimes, my feeling about "too much power" is not only a feeling...
in anticlimactic order:
Lear 35: 2x 18 kN = 8 t ... thats a ratio of almost 5:1
Falcon F-16 (inaugurated 1978_): 1x 76 = 19 t ... that's a ratio of exactly 4:1, of course without afterburner.
Cr7: 2x 61 = 34 t ... thats a ratio of less than 4:1
... ...
So, it seems as if Lear 35 pilots should be better educated than F-16 fighter pilots! Ejection seats included.
And I thought, the CR7 is quite powerful..
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Argentina really mentions bank angles between 30 and 90°? Is this the first time when I doubt who at least once in his life has sat in a
CR7 (Bombardier Canadair Regional Jet 700) simulator?
I only mention it because imho, one of the very few civilian jets that have to be handled with more care than a CR7 is a Lear Jet, and in this case the Keyword is "smaller engines would still be big enough".
Why do you think, that, engineers, on the basis of the CR7, were only be able to develop the CR9, with exactly the same engine type?
Only because the CR7, with 20 seats less than the CR9, had too much horse power.
Since I am here, it is the same topic. I'd never buy a BMW limousine with more than 900 hp, or a 1978 VW Beetle with more than 350 hp.
If you have too much power, not the bank angle is your problem but your response time. In 2017, I haven't mentioned yet a story that happened when I became a JP member. So, here it is again.
4 young boys somewhere in the USA, the oldest only less than half as old as me (19?), tried to drive father's BMW M5, and they discovered a private airstrip with a hill at the end of the strip. The end of the story was, car parts and body parts that hung down from trees.
We still don't know the age of the two dead pilots in the Lear 35, or do we?
Leichtsinn und Übermut ist (meistens) eine Jugendsünde, but that's only my assumption.
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