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Near Miss of Singapore Airline A350XWB at Mumbai

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  • BoeingBobby
    replied
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    Pilot F#cked-up Monumentally?
    Pure F*****g Magic!

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    P.F.M.!
    Pilot F#cked-up Monumentally?

    Leave a comment:


  • BoeingBobby
    replied
    Originally posted by janamparikh View Post
    I agree to this. It's easily identified when you come in to approach be it from any of the runway. Wonder what cause this.
    P.F.M.!

    Leave a comment:


  • janamparikh
    replied
    Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post
    Good afternoon, for all those jp members in Florida (post #18_)!

    And a good Tuesday for men who don't publish which intl airport is next to them... (post #17)..

    I like to second what you say. Juhu airport, that airport name almost sound like a joke, in German (if I had a red nose and a Sinterklaas cap on).

    Afaik, I am not allowed to publish the EDDL IFR sheets. But only so far, these sheets contain at least one (very) small airport

    which definitely must not be confused with EDDL... As I said before, I know almost nothin about the A359. But I hope that, if an A359 is not able to distinguish between Juhu and Sahar by itself (intelligent a/c?!), the PF, or at least the Flight Captain on board has to take care that this distinction is made correctly, inflight.

    Why do I say this. Well, VABB is such a very very very classic airport. It is used by, Canada, France, Japan, Great Britain, Hong Kong, the Netherlands, Thailand, the United States of America, Singapore, Switzerland, Germany, ...

    And I have used it so very often in the simulator. So I almost can't imagine how VABB with its almost unique combination of Terminals and rwys can be confused: the 09/27 intercontinental is crossed by the shorter 14/32, and - now my private simulator handbook is speakin - north of the 09 at the end of the rwy there is the new Terminal 2, the twys are to the left. The Terminal 1 is only domestic.

    Btw, what has just confused me for more than 2 minutes, by far not all aerial images of VABB show the orientation which you ALWAYS find on street maps: North is top!
    This especially is true for the aerial image which is used in en wikipedia:
    In the lower left corner, it is the rwy 09!

    And if you don't know it better, trust handbooks of pilots who've been there (as I do).

    PS: Does Juhu have such an (almost) unique or unique Terminal 2? I don't think so. And what do I get if I ask the B744 fmc for the VABB 09 rwy.. I'd guess that I'll get the VABB 09 rwy and not somethin else, but
    the A359 is brandnew, and I know almost nothin about it... I don't wanna sound arrogant, but.. show me the aerial image of Sahar which is used by en wikipedia, even with this quite strange orientation, and - I am not 100% sure but more than 90 % - I'll give you VABB as the result, even without the four letter code or the airport name.

    Imho, Sahar is so unique that it can be identified even without an on board flight computer, good visibility assumed.

    And who'll tell me how this very short answers are made?
    I agree to this. It's easily identified when you come in to approach be it from any of the runway. Wonder what cause this.

    Leave a comment:


  • janamparikh
    replied
    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
    I thought the incident was because the airport was next to an airport with a very close and aligned runway...so maybe the airport has something to do with the incident?
    Yes but the length is huge of CSIA compated to Juhu. Also, Juhu Airport doesn't have an ILS. It's a complate visual approach.

    Leave a comment:


  • ATLcrew
    replied
    Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post
    I know that there are jp members who regularly try to kick my a**.

    But I have another thought how something like that should rather not have happened.

    SQ is again, a very very very classic airline. So, I can't believe that neither the flyin chief on board (i.e. the Flight Captain) nor the so called F/O hadn't known how VABB looks like if we fly the VABB 09. That belief even becomes stronger if we take into account that SQ, in contrast to my nickname, flies to Sahar with something like a 280 or 300 heading.
    Thus, SQ has to fly something like a U-turn to land on the VABB 09, in contrast to my nickname. And I trust SQ, they know how something like that has to be done.

    But what if, and I apologize for this suspicion, the atc was not available for radar vectoring during that A359 was on final? Almost impossible imho, such problems only occur in computer simulator (games), known as the atc dll problem...

    PS: There again is a solution. Be prepared. Use ATIS and use your on board flight computer. Use TCAS. Afaik, the atc will not use rwys which completely differ from that. Although I don't know if I'd react the same way as in the simulator, in case that atc does not answer: feed the fmc with ILS, and join the line.
    But I also know 1 airport where that can give you strange results, for long haul pilots without local knowledge. At Rhein/Main, I regularly have to correct the atc dll, from 07L to 07R ...
    What?

    Leave a comment:


  • LH-B744
    replied
    I know that there are jp members who regularly try to kick my a**.

    But I have another thought how something like that should rather not have happened.

    SQ is again, a very very very classic airline. So, I can't believe that neither the flyin chief on board (i.e. the Flight Captain) nor the so called F/O hadn't known how VABB looks like if we fly the VABB 09. That belief even becomes stronger if we take into account that SQ, in contrast to my nickname, flies to Sahar with something like a 280 or 300 heading.
    Thus, SQ has to fly something like a U-turn to land on the VABB 09, in contrast to my nickname. And I trust SQ, they know how something like that has to be done.

    But what if, and I apologize for this suspicion, the atc was not available for radar vectoring during that A359 was on final? Almost impossible imho, such problems only occur in computer simulator (games), known as the atc dll problem...

    PS: There again is a solution. Be prepared. Use ATIS and use your on board flight computer. Use TCAS. Afaik, the atc will not use rwys which completely differ from that. Although I don't know if I'd react the same way as in the simulator, in case that atc does not answer: feed the fmc with ILS, and join the line.
    But I also know 1 airport where that can give you strange results, for long haul pilots without local knowledge. At Rhein/Main, I regularly have to correct the atc dll, from 07L to 07R ...
    Last edited by LH-B744; 2017-12-13, 01:30. Reason: We try to find solutions.

    Leave a comment:


  • LH-B744
    replied
    Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    Oh that has never happened before! Atlas Jabara Colorado a couple of years ago in the Dream Lifter, South West a few weeks later (I don't remember where) and countless others. You are absolutely right 3WE!
    And these are 2 examples for Sahar Intl airport? I only ask, because I don't know. I also assume that something like that has happened before.

    Leave a comment:


  • LH-B744
    replied
    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
    I thought the incident was because the airport was next to an airport with a very close and aligned runway...so maybe the airport has something to do with the incident?
    Good afternoon, for all those jp members in Florida (post #18_)!

    And a good Tuesday for men who don't publish which intl airport is next to them... (post #17)..

    I like to second what you say. Juhu airport, that airport name almost sound like a joke, in German (if I had a red nose and a Sinterklaas cap on).

    Afaik, I am not allowed to publish the EDDL IFR sheets. But only so far, these sheets contain at least one (very) small airport

    which definitely must not be confused with EDDL... As I said before, I know almost nothin about the A359. But I hope that, if an A359 is not able to distinguish between Juhu and Sahar by itself (intelligent a/c?!), the PF, or at least the Flight Captain on board has to take care that this distinction is made correctly, inflight.

    Why do I say this. Well, VABB is such a very very very classic airport. It is used by, Canada, France, Japan, Great Britain, Hong Kong, the Netherlands, Thailand, the United States of America, Singapore, Switzerland, Germany, ...

    And I have used it so very often in the simulator. So I almost can't imagine how VABB with its almost unique combination of Terminals and rwys can be confused: the 09/27 intercontinental is crossed by the shorter 14/32, and - now my private simulator handbook is speakin - north of the 09 at the end of the rwy there is the new Terminal 2, the twys are to the left. The Terminal 1 is only domestic.

    Btw, what has just confused me for more than 2 minutes, by far not all aerial images of VABB show the orientation which you ALWAYS find on street maps: North is top!
    This especially is true for the aerial image which is used in en wikipedia:
    In the lower left corner, it is the rwy 09!

    And if you don't know it better, trust handbooks of pilots who've been there (as I do).

    PS: Does Juhu have such an (almost) unique or unique Terminal 2? I don't think so. And what do I get if I ask the B744 fmc for the VABB 09 rwy.. I'd guess that I'll get the VABB 09 rwy and not somethin else, but
    the A359 is brandnew, and I know almost nothin about it... I don't wanna sound arrogant, but.. show me the aerial image of Sahar which is used by en wikipedia, even with this quite strange orientation, and - I am not 100% sure but more than 90 % - I'll give you VABB as the result, even without the four letter code or the airport name.

    Imho, Sahar is so unique that it can be identified even without an on board flight computer, good visibility assumed.

    And who'll tell me how this very short answers are made?
    Last edited by LH-B744; 2017-12-12, 23:54. Reason: :_) .. as always.

    Leave a comment:


  • BoeingBobby
    replied
    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
    I thought the incident was because the airport was next to an airport with a very close and aligned runway...so maybe the airport has something to do with the incident?

    Oh that has never happened before! Atlas Jabara Colorado a couple of years ago in the Dream Lifter, South West a few weeks later (I don't remember where) and countless others. You are absolutely right 3WE!

    Leave a comment:


  • 3WE
    replied
    Originally posted by janamparikh View Post
    The airport has nothing to do with the incedent
    I thought the incident was because the airport was next to an airport with a very close and aligned runway...so maybe the airport has something to do with the incident?

    Leave a comment:


  • janamparikh
    replied
    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
    Thought y’all just passed a big safety audit?
    The airport has nothing to do with the incedent

    Leave a comment:


  • janamparikh
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan View Post
    No, but you need to have a reason to. When approaching a modern aerodrome with high-intensity approach lighting and ILS, in an A350, not having the runway in sight at 1000' doesn't seem like much of a reason.

    Having buggered the thing by ignoring the instruments and establishing yourself visually on the wrong airport seems like a very good reason though.
    True!

    Leave a comment:


  • janamparikh
    replied
    I am wondering from where did the sun come in picture on that day. It was cloudy the whole day and a potential cyclone was going to hit Mumbai within the next 48 hours. Still figuring out what went wrong in the flight deck. The best way to confirm this would be ATC recordings.

    Leave a comment:


  • 3WE
    replied
    Apparently we had a plane mix up right and left runways in New Yark this week.

    As in this case, the go around was accomplished in spite of underslung engines and somatographic illusions.

    And back to an early Gabie post... was this really mistaken identity, or was it maybe just an out of whack approach with a precautionary go around?

    Leave a comment:

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