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  • More Monkeying with Cbs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovUy-c3EcyI

    Disclaimer: I will not make overly-bold statements that there are gross violations of anything here...

    That being said, it does look interesting.

    -At first, it just looks like some clouds and a small rain shaft...NOT_a convective monster...Of course, dark black BUILDING stuff is what got Delta 191.

    -From my keyboard, it sure looks like a LONG TIME from the words minimums until I can discern a runway...Conversely, I think there is ground contact visible down low on the video, and the PF may very well have 'identified appropriate features associated with the runway environment.'

    -From the view, it seems that the FO is filming and not a jump-seater. Could be wrong, but I also remember some of our real pilots being a bit perturbed at the camera operator being not quite 100% focused on his rather important duties during a rather important flight phase...
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

  • #2
    Hmmm....I counted 15 seconds from the "Minimums" call to seeing anything to do with the airfield. The video is described as being an "awesome" landing. My descriptive words would be "F*****g Lucky landing".
    If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

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    • #3
      Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
      Hmmm....I counted 15 seconds from the "Minimums" call to seeing anything to do with the airfield. The video is described as being an "awesome" landing. My descriptive words would be "F*****g Lucky landing".
      Yeah...unless the pilot saw something different from what the camera saw it sure smells bad...

      ...playing devils advocate, I think you can hand fly a Cat II approach to 100 feet (which involves fundamentally the same skill as flying to 200 feet)...but then, methinks the automatic bitching Bobby says "minimums" more like when the video sees approach lights...and not_the 15 sec we notice here...curious.
      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 3WE View Post
        Yeah...unless the pilot saw something different from what the camera saw it sure smells bad...

        ...playing devils advocate, I think you can hand fly a Cat II approach to 100 feet (which involves fundamentally the same skill as flying to 200 feet)...but then, methinks the automatic bitching Bobby says "minimums" more like when the video sees approach lights...and not_the 15 sec we notice here...curious.
        I would not be surprised if the event was as "curious" as it seems int he video. But I will give the benefit of the doubt for 2 reasons:
        1- The camera seems to be focused in the window frame, and we can see that the runway is very out of focus when it first becomes visible in the video. So maybe the pilot saw things that are not detectable in the video.
        2- After the automated call "minimums" a person (it seems to be the FO) mentions something about the runway lights. They are talking in Spanish, but I don't understand more. Of course, he could have said "I don't see the runway lights", but he also could have said "I see the runway lights".

        About the camera, I agree with 3we that it seems to be recorded by the FO, but maybe he had a gopro in his head.

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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        • #5
          Doesn't look that bad to me! Have no idea what type A/C they are in, but really not that big a deal.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
            Doesn't look that bad to me! Have no idea what type A/C they are in, but really not that big a deal.
            The word was "interesting". (Doesn't say good or bad).

            I would say that the rain was pretty heavy (can you say red radar returns...perhaps?)

            I still think 'penetration' is more than the color of the cell, for the zillionth time: A wet, humid, tropical afternoon rainshower can be soooo friendly, even though rainfall rates are high...versus 3BS at the grocery store in Useless TX at 5:30 PM...hmmm, that little towering cumulus made a rumble of thunder...looks like an afternoon thundershower.

            I also love those youtubes where you hear "minimums" as a runway comes into view...at 200, 100 or even 50 feet...But as Brian said, it's a good 15 seconds, but Gabby and 3BS are giving the crew the benefit of the doubt that the captain saw more than the camera... (PS, I did also suspect that maybe the minimums here were not the "normal" 200 ft, but something higher...the camera sees the runway more at the 150? ft level (to venture a rough guess).
            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
              Doesn't look that bad to me! Have no idea what type A/C they are in, but really not that big a deal.
              It seems to be a twin turboprop, likely some model of ATR.

              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

              Comment


              • #8
                https://www.popularmechanics.com/fli...m-flight-path/
                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                • #9
                  They were at FL340. Most likely the hail was "falling" up from the clouds under the plane.
                  It is not that unusual to get turbulence or icing when flying above weather, but hail is very unusual.

                  I will hold blaming the pilots by now...

                  Repair will not be cheap.... Could this even be a write-off? (think destroyed leading edge of everything including engines plus dings scattered all about all the surface, lost antennae and sensors like pitots and AOA. Maybe some engine damage too. And of course, a pair of new windshields (and it looks like the surrounding structure too).

                  I can't imagine what it may feel to hit hail at 500 MPH.

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                    They were at FL340. Most likely the hail was "falling" up from the clouds under the plane.
                    It is not that unusual to get turbulence or icing when flying above weather, but hail is very unusual.

                    I will hold blaming the pilots by now...

                    Repair will not be cheap.... Could this even be a write-off? (think destroyed leading edge of everything including engines plus dings scattered all about all the surface, lost antennae and sensors like pitots and AOA. Maybe some engine damage too. And of course, a pair of new windshields (and it looks like the surrounding structure too).

                    I can't imagine what it may feel to hit hail at 500 MPH.
                    It is very loud, like flying through rocks. The worst I ever had was descending into Montevideo in a 200.

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                    • #11
                      reply

                      Hmmm....I counted 15 seconds from the "Minimums" call to seeing anything to do with the airfield

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by negar2000 View Post
                        Hmmm....I counted 15 seconds from the "Minimums" call to seeing anything to do with the airfield
                        Why did you copy-pasted something that Brian said almost 1 year ago and posted it as your own authorship? Not a nice 1st post.

                        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                          Why did you copy-pasted something that Brian said almost 1 year ago and posted it as your own authorship? Not a nice 1st post.
                          Probably a bot. At least it copied something from here, others copy random posts from other interwebz forums

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Not_Karl View Post
                            Probably a bot. At least it copied something from here, others copy random posts from other interwebz forums
                            I have requested deletion of this member. His/its homepage is certainly spam involving Arabic wedding organisation.
                            If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sitting at one's keyboard, one must ask: "Was someone not monitoring the weather radar, and were there not options to land the craft somewhere instead of going straight into the storm?"

                              https://www.yahoo.com/gma/8-dead-mis...opstories.html

                              I do actually appreciate Bobby's thoughts on storm avoidance (other than I don't think they are shared particularly universally).

                              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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