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Nepal plane crash: Aircraft bursts into flames at Kathmandu airport

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  • #31
    Originally posted by 3WE View Post

    Know what- the dudes voice is so strange, it could almost be a Germanwings or terrorist intentional crash? Maybe he was a crappy pilot and intended to hit the terminal but missed?
    I seems odd that he would repeatedly ask for landing clearance if he was intending to crash.

    The last transmission might provide a clue though. He has asked for landing clearance and received VERY CLEAR landing clearance. A moment later he asks "to check that, are we clear to land?"

    Why? Does he have the short term memory of a carrot, was he that mentally impaired, were there distractions in the cockpit that we can't hear on the ATC tape, or did he see something on the ground that made him question the clearance?

    It's an odd question, but one a terrorist or a homicidal pilot wouldn't be likely to ask unless he had a very dark sense of humor.

    My money is on fatigue, intoxication (including cabin air toxins), a medical condition or just not being the brightest bulb in the cockpit.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by 3WE View Post
      Please elaborate! (I know, you probably can't, but asking semi-rhetorically)

      (Ugh- so many missing factoids.)

      Go around from a reasonably OK approach to a runway or a crazy approach?...last minute go around or early lazy go around?, distressed looking or calm-controlled looking?...and to WHAT RUNWAY?

      (How does this jive with 'missing the tower and terminal and trying to land on Taxiway D'?)

      Much strangeness here.

      Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBgcC3OlqfQ
      Despite comments on AVHerald, the plane looks fine to me.

      These comments are also interesting:
      I read enough rumours to know what probably happened here.

      According to pieces of this puzzle at other sites and Simon's excellent research here, this poor Devil Captain was reportedly on his 5th sector with absolutely no help from anyone.

      He reportedly had a co-pilot with no experience to speak of.
      He had absolutely no ATC at all. The VHF comm was reportedly broken and they were using portable garbage with echos and nulls. They reportedly didn't know how to do vectors anymore, and didn't want to do it.

      The FMS likely killed these people. I know, I know what you're going to say! They should have been able to program the life-saving magenta line for the tired Capain. But just one runway change in the pattern, takes the F/O out of the loop until base in the A310. By the time his head comes up, he doesn't know where he is, what direction the airplane is headed, and is behind on checklists and radio work. Now if he botches the build, the tired Capt has to turn on DME only.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Evan View Post
        My money is on fatigue, intoxication (including cabin air toxins), a medical condition or just not being the brightest bulb in the cockpit.
        Explain how those things can happen so quickly without any word of distress or word from Flygirl nor Happyman? The two of them being silent about a problem is a big oddity.

        Shouldn't happyman speak up if Flygirl has passed out? (Even if HE is suffering from CO/burnt turbo oil)? Shouldn't Flygirl speak up if happy man is having a medical crisis? Remember to put this in a context of a significant amount of unexplained maneuvering. (Over a pretty significant time period and in context of a fairly sudden change)

        Not impossible, but not that much crazier than a stoned, hallucinating, suicidal pilot thinking he'll have some fun with ATC on the way out...

        And yeah, Schwartzezezez link to the go around...I note a shallow turn (which does not seem 100% kosher- OR maybe it is) but it otherwise seems in control.

        Restating- much craziness, and not trying to dismiss Evan's theory as much as list the counter arguments...AND SHOULDN'T THERE BE SOME REPORT ON THE CVR AND SOME ROUGH RECONSTRUCTION OF THE ACTUAL FLIGHT TRACK BASED ON ATC STATEMENTS BY NOW?????

        ...and yes, I cannot resist telling Evan that it could just as well be a meteor (Sorry Gabe).
        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by 3WE View Post
          Explain how those things can happen so quickly without any word of distress or word from Flygirl nor Happyman? The two of them being silent about a problem is a big oddity.
          Google: "cockpit gradient in third-world cultures"

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Evan View Post
            Google: "cockpit gradient in third-world cultures"
            I actually mentioned that above.

            Conversely, if you claim that, then you need to pull 'medical' off the table as an option, because questioning the captain is one thing, but unless he is having a special, subtle stroke, someone would probably throw subservience out the window (AND as I stated earlier, I'm thinking CRM is taught this century, even if the men make eye contact and nod sarcastically at the crazy suggestion that women be listened to).

            FWIW, while the Indian culture may have some older, unenlightened economic and sexual discriminatory tendencies, they are somewhat big on hierarchy, process and arguing...aka...they ought to be good on checklists and procedures and safety decision trees.

            Are we suggesting that perhaps (not trying to force anything on you and Gabe), Flygirlbuptah is great on the radio and sucks at flying...she takes the plane, he takes the radios...and then possibly drunk Happycaptainpraptapt maybe gently mentored and coached her as she struggled with IMC and control and runways and go-arounds until it was too late?

            Indeed, I'll take that before a meteor.
            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by 3WE View Post
              as she struggled with IMC...
              VNKT 120850Z 26007KT 140V300 7000 FEW015 FEW025CB SCT030 BKN100 21/10 Q1015 NOSIG CB TO SE AND S=
              VNKT 120820Z 28008KT 240V320 6000 TS FEW015 FEW025CB SCT030 22/11 Q1015 NOSIG CB TO SE S AND SW=

              Conversely, if you claim that, then you need to pull 'medical' off the table as an option, because questioning the captain is one thing, but unless he is having a special, subtle stroke, someone would probably throw subservience out the window (AND as I stated earlier, I'm thinking CRM is taught this century, even if the men make eye contact and nod sarcastically at the crazy suggestion that women be listened to).
              You would think, but...

              Originally posted by The Spirit Air fumes incident Gabe brought up yesterday
              ...the captain returned to duty a couple of days after the first officer, however, was described as unconcentrated and erratic throughout the following flights developing eye-hand coordination issues and increasingly unusual behaviour.
              That's, ugh, flights, with an 's'. Multiple flights of behaving like this, in the front left seat of a passenger jet.

              Captains seem to get a lot of rope before anyone wants to step in.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Evan View Post
                [Spirit Nasty Oil Additive Fume Incident]

                That's, ugh, flights, with an 's'. Multiple flights of behaving like this, in the front left seat of a passenger jet.

                Captains seem to get a lot of rope before anyone wants to step in.
                Yes, MULTIPLE flights...

                BUT...

                Multiple flights where it seems that the planes did not randomly turn off course to another runway, where a 'seemingly totally professional' pilot disappeared from the conversation, where the planes did not crash and maybe (yeah maybe) where the CRM was solid.

                Not really an apples to apples deal.
                Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Evan View Post
                  VNKT 120850Z 26007KT 140V300 7000 FEW015 FEW025CB SCT030 BKN100 21/10 Q1015 NOSIG CB TO SE AND S=
                  VNKT 120820Z 28008KT 240V320 6000 TS FEW015 FEW025CB SCT030 22/11 Q1015 NOSIG CB TO SE S AND SW=
                  ...Yup...and there's that time period where they guys have lost sight of the airport...bad angle on the windows to the runway?, or punching through a cloud (it is IMC when you are inside one)?, or perhaps meteors obstructing the view?

                  (Sorry Gabe, too much of a chuckle factor to not cite that).
                  Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                    (Sorry Gabe, too much of a chuckle factor to not cite that).
                    Don't worry. I gave up a couple of days ago.

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                      ...Yup...and there's that time period where they guys have lost sight of the airport...bad angle on the windows to the runway?, or punching through a cloud (it is IMC when you are inside one)?, or perhaps meteors obstructing the view?

                      (Sorry Gabe, too much of a chuckle factor to not cite that).
                      Another comment from avherald:

                      @Roger There are worried Nepali pilots , Yeti Airlines, that are worried if the pilot are lost . The video coming out of them turning just before a hill is the moment . They suggest ATC to bring them back from the mountains, you can hear them on the recordings talkin in Nepali. (watch?v=BBgcC3OlqfQ)

                      After this ATC do ask them
                      (unclear)...radar vector..(unclear).

                      Pilot probably ignored it.
                      PS Since we're past the meteor how about I raise you a Chinese space station?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Update on AVHerald.

                        On Apr 10th 2018 Nepal's AAIC released their preliminary report reporting the aircraft touched down about 1700 meters down runway 20, travelled on the ground towards the southeast, went off the runway, broke through the inner perimeter fence, moved down along a rough downslope and stopped after a ground travel of 442 meters at the eastern side of the runway (editorial note: the coordinates of touch down point and final position do not match the narrative). The aircraft caught fire and was destroyed. All 4 crew and 47 passengers perished, 20 passengers survived with serious injuries. Initially 22 passengers were rescued alive from the crash site, two later succumbed to their injuries. The cockpit voice and flight data recorders were recovered and were dispatched to the Transport Safety Board Canada (TSB) together with other aircraft components like PSEU, EGPWS, EMU and QAR.

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                        • #42
                          Final report released today: unsafe pilot, cockpit gradient, broken safety culture.

                          http://avherald.com/h?article=4b5fa1cb&opt=0

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                          • #43
                            No substances?

                            --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                            --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                              No substances?
                              No sleep is just as effective as substances. Remind me never to fly US-Bangala. That must have been a horrific experience for the FO.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                My heart really goes out to the F/O. This was a crime.

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