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Nepal plane crash: Aircraft bursts into flames at Kathmandu airport

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Avherlald
    Gabrielian Blah blah blah blah
    Originally posted by 3BS’ short version
    So the dude was mega dead tired and ROYALLY ROYALLY fubar'd a landing [almost seems he was asleep/semi-conscious] with a deferential female not_enjoying the ride, and unable to intervene?
    Wow...

    Edit: I acknowledge that I thought there would have been mechanical problems or something nefarious on board (and perhaps meteors). Including engaging Gabriel in a lively debate with harsh personal attacks. Tough to stomach a pure botched landing.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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    • #47
      As I watched my junior first officers get hired on by FedEx, UPS, United, Delta and American, if they asked me for any advice I had for them, I would look them straight in the eye and say "Don't let the Captain kill you"!

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      • #48
        Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
        As I watched my junior first officers get hired on by FedEx, UPS, United, Delta and American, if they asked me for any advice I had for them, I would look them straight in the eye and say "Don't let the Captain kill you"!
        Don't let the captain kill your cargo, for those entrusted with the self-loading variety. I think the F/O has a clear responsibility, as the human redundancy in the cockpit, to intervene if things get this unreal. I think most would. But certain Asian cultures seem to place a weaker emphasis on 'protect the passengers' than on 'bow to your sensei"...

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Evan View Post
          Don't let the captain kill your cargo, for those entrusted with the self-loading variety. I think the F/O has an clear responsibility, as the human redundancy in the cockpit, to intervene if things get this unreal. I think most would. But certain Asian cultures seem to place a weaker emphasis on 'protect the passengers' than on 'bow to your sensei"...
          We also have passenger aircraft. I have flown my share of troops home from the desert.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Evan View Post
            Don't let the captain kill your cargo, for those entrusted with the self-loading variety. I think the F/O has a clear responsibility, as the human redundancy in the cockpit, to intervene if things get this unreal. I think most would. But certain Asian cultures seem to place a weaker emphasis on 'protect the passengers' than on 'bow to your sensei"...
            I agree Evan, but do you see the flight hours of the F/O? She had no experience and basically zero power. The experience gap was enormous, the power gap was enormous, and the knowledge gap was huge. It would take a very special person (Asian or not, male of female) to overcome that sort of power situation and be effective. Add the fact this guy was acting reckless and erratic, being assertive could lead to even worse erratic behaviour. It is notable that the report went out of it's way to note she was asking a lot of questions and was trying to help and to learn.

            What a horrible, horrible thing.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Schwartz View Post
              I agree Evan, but do you see the flight hours of the F/O? She had no experience and basically zero power. The experience gap was enormous, the power gap was enormous, and the knowledge gap was huge. It would take a very special person (Asian or not, male of female) to overcome that sort of power situation...
              I know what you are trying to say but being a back up, being capable of operating the plane, and being able to challenge the captain are her top 3 duties.

              If she is not trained and competent at those things it’s a huge failure by the airline.

              Sure, there’s a bazillion things to learn on the job, but making a good landing and recognizing and rescuing a bad one should already be there. Hell, how many pseudo experts here can land 600,000 lb 747s with four power levers and no flight time in one?
              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Schwartz View Post
                I agree Evan, but do you see the flight hours of the F/O? She had no experience and basically zero power. The experience gap was enormous, the power gap was enormous, and the knowledge gap was huge. It would take a very special person (Asian or not, male of female) to overcome that sort of power situation and be effective. Add the fact this guy was acting reckless and erratic, being assertive could lead to even worse erratic behaviour. It is notable that the report went out of it's way to note she was asking a lot of questions and was trying to help and to learn.

                What a horrible, horrible thing.
                I understand your point in general, but the basics of sterile cockpit and stable approach were so grossly violated here that I think most (properly trained) F/O's with one hour of commercial flight time would intervene (just ask BoeingBobby about annoying, know-it-all, newby F/O's). Except in cultures where doing so is culturally forbidden.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                  Wow...

                  Edit: I acknowledge that I thought there would have been mechanical problems or something nefarious on board (and perhaps meteors). Tough to stomach a pure botched landing.
                  Your edit made me not post my "Are you kidding?" reply.
                  Your sarcastic question describing how crazy it would be is exactly what ended up happening. No mechanical error, no drugs, no death of the lady, no impairment of the guy (other than plain stupid, reckless, careless flying and perhaps some fatigue).

                  --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                  --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                    Your edit made me not post my "Are you kidding?" reply.
                    Your sarcastic question describing how crazy it would be is exactly what ended up happening. No mechanical error, no drugs, no death of the lady, no impairment of the guy (other than plain stupid, reckless, careless flying and perhaps some fatigue).
                    Indeed. I still say “unbelievable”, but now it’s an adjective instead of a statement.
                    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                    • #55
                      https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/w...ash-pilot.html

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                      • #56
                        Video of the incident from various angles.

                        https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=kKTcV_1554405305

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