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Nepal plane crash: Aircraft bursts into flames at Kathmandu airport

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  • xspeedy
    replied
    Video of the incident from various angles.

    https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=kKTcV_1554405305

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  • starchyme
    replied
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/w...ash-pilot.html

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  • 3WE
    replied
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    Your edit made me not post my "Are you kidding?" reply.
    Your sarcastic question describing how crazy it would be is exactly what ended up happening. No mechanical error, no drugs, no death of the lady, no impairment of the guy (other than plain stupid, reckless, careless flying and perhaps some fatigue).
    Indeed. I still say “unbelievable”, but now it’s an adjective instead of a statement.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
    Wow...

    Edit: I acknowledge that I thought there would have been mechanical problems or something nefarious on board (and perhaps meteors). Tough to stomach a pure botched landing.
    Your edit made me not post my "Are you kidding?" reply.
    Your sarcastic question describing how crazy it would be is exactly what ended up happening. No mechanical error, no drugs, no death of the lady, no impairment of the guy (other than plain stupid, reckless, careless flying and perhaps some fatigue).

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Originally posted by Schwartz View Post
    I agree Evan, but do you see the flight hours of the F/O? She had no experience and basically zero power. The experience gap was enormous, the power gap was enormous, and the knowledge gap was huge. It would take a very special person (Asian or not, male of female) to overcome that sort of power situation and be effective. Add the fact this guy was acting reckless and erratic, being assertive could lead to even worse erratic behaviour. It is notable that the report went out of it's way to note she was asking a lot of questions and was trying to help and to learn.

    What a horrible, horrible thing.
    I understand your point in general, but the basics of sterile cockpit and stable approach were so grossly violated here that I think most (properly trained) F/O's with one hour of commercial flight time would intervene (just ask BoeingBobby about annoying, know-it-all, newby F/O's). Except in cultures where doing so is culturally forbidden.

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  • 3WE
    replied
    Originally posted by Schwartz View Post
    I agree Evan, but do you see the flight hours of the F/O? She had no experience and basically zero power. The experience gap was enormous, the power gap was enormous, and the knowledge gap was huge. It would take a very special person (Asian or not, male of female) to overcome that sort of power situation...
    I know what you are trying to say but being a back up, being capable of operating the plane, and being able to challenge the captain are her top 3 duties.

    If she is not trained and competent at those things it’s a huge failure by the airline.

    Sure, there’s a bazillion things to learn on the job, but making a good landing and recognizing and rescuing a bad one should already be there. Hell, how many pseudo experts here can land 600,000 lb 747s with four power levers and no flight time in one?

    Leave a comment:


  • Schwartz
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan View Post
    Don't let the captain kill your cargo, for those entrusted with the self-loading variety. I think the F/O has a clear responsibility, as the human redundancy in the cockpit, to intervene if things get this unreal. I think most would. But certain Asian cultures seem to place a weaker emphasis on 'protect the passengers' than on 'bow to your sensei"...
    I agree Evan, but do you see the flight hours of the F/O? She had no experience and basically zero power. The experience gap was enormous, the power gap was enormous, and the knowledge gap was huge. It would take a very special person (Asian or not, male of female) to overcome that sort of power situation and be effective. Add the fact this guy was acting reckless and erratic, being assertive could lead to even worse erratic behaviour. It is notable that the report went out of it's way to note she was asking a lot of questions and was trying to help and to learn.

    What a horrible, horrible thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • BoeingBobby
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan View Post
    Don't let the captain kill your cargo, for those entrusted with the self-loading variety. I think the F/O has an clear responsibility, as the human redundancy in the cockpit, to intervene if things get this unreal. I think most would. But certain Asian cultures seem to place a weaker emphasis on 'protect the passengers' than on 'bow to your sensei"...
    We also have passenger aircraft. I have flown my share of troops home from the desert.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
    As I watched my junior first officers get hired on by FedEx, UPS, United, Delta and American, if they asked me for any advice I had for them, I would look them straight in the eye and say "Don't let the Captain kill you"!
    Don't let the captain kill your cargo, for those entrusted with the self-loading variety. I think the F/O has a clear responsibility, as the human redundancy in the cockpit, to intervene if things get this unreal. I think most would. But certain Asian cultures seem to place a weaker emphasis on 'protect the passengers' than on 'bow to your sensei"...

    Leave a comment:


  • BoeingBobby
    replied
    As I watched my junior first officers get hired on by FedEx, UPS, United, Delta and American, if they asked me for any advice I had for them, I would look them straight in the eye and say "Don't let the Captain kill you"!

    Leave a comment:


  • 3WE
    replied
    Originally posted by Avherlald
    Gabrielian Blah blah blah blah
    Originally posted by 3BS’ short version
    So the dude was mega dead tired and ROYALLY ROYALLY fubar'd a landing [almost seems he was asleep/semi-conscious] with a deferential female not_enjoying the ride, and unable to intervene?
    Wow...

    Edit: I acknowledge that I thought there would have been mechanical problems or something nefarious on board (and perhaps meteors). Including engaging Gabriel in a lively debate with harsh personal attacks. Tough to stomach a pure botched landing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    My heart really goes out to the F/O. This was a crime.

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  • Schwartz
    replied
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    No substances?
    No sleep is just as effective as substances. Remind me never to fly US-Bangala. That must have been a horrific experience for the FO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    No substances?

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  • Evan
    replied
    Final report released today: unsafe pilot, cockpit gradient, broken safety culture.

    http://avherald.com/h?article=4b5fa1cb&opt=0

    Leave a comment:

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