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  • #16
    Originally posted by Evan View Post
    (in order of aviation forum impressiveness)

    3) Hydraulics failure / clean or reduced configuration landing without spoilers

    2) Fuel starvation / Gimli Glider cross control landing on a weekend dragstrip

    1) Ditching in the Hudson.
    The one thing I plan on doing with Gabe is an RTO brake demonstration, and I am also going to turn off the anti-skid and try one to see what it does. VMCG is another good one for a demonstration.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
      The one thing I plan on doing with Gabe is an RTO brake demonstration, and I am also going to turn off the anti-skid and try one to see what it does. VMCG is another good one for a demonstration.
      Ok, how about the scenario all flight desk pilots dream about:

      The flight captain, BoeingBobby (CTPL 7,000,000 total hours, 8,000,000 on type) is pilot-in-command of a rare passenger flight on the 747-200. Once at cruise altitude, things get kind of boring so BoeingBobby suggests to the know-it-all F/O that they take turns sticking their heads out the smoke hatch to see who can do it the longest. The F/O goes first, but he gets immediately sucked out instead. BoeingBobby, concealing his laughter from the CVR, closes the hatch, continuing the flight while enjoying the absence of some snot-nosed F/O going off about procedure this and procedure that. Unfortunately classic 747's, which mostly live in the desert, sometimes have snakes on board, one of which has been hiding behind the rudder pedals, and which now strikes out and bites BoeingBobby in the ankle, temporarily paralyzingly him but not affecting his ability to speak, let alone rant. He uses his last strength to push the FA call button and ask for a little help.

      In the main cabin, the FA makes an announcement, asking everybody to remain calm but does anyone know how to fly a plane. 3WE, who happens to be on this flight, immediately raises his hand but before he can speak he is interrupted by a loud creaking sound, a sound of bending plastic against flesh, as a giant unfolds himself from the economy class seat in front of him, unbending and rising like a mighty tree, casting his shadow down upon the speechless masses.

      It is Gabriel.

      "How's the legroom up there?" He asks hopefully.
      "Pretty good", the FA replies,"But do you know how an airplane works?"

      Gabriel launches into a Gabriellien explanation of how an airplane works but, after about ten minutes, with time running out and nobody having any idea of what he is saying, the FA gently interrupts him and ushers him upstairs into the cockpit on blind faith.

      And then we find out the answer to the burning question: Can a mere GA instrument-rated pilot-of-the-millennium fly and navigate a 747-200 from cruise down to the runway with only his basic airmanship and a bellicose veteran flight captain to give him instructions?

      To make it interesting: Ceiling overcast at 2000, visibility unlimited below that. Light crosswind so we get some rudder in. Straight in final to a 10,000ft runway. Automatics are allowed down to the FAF (or maybe down to 500ft). Fuel in board for two missed approaches.

      If he nails it on the first approach, maybe change it to Kai Tak's RWY 13 and, if he nails that, to Paro, Bhutan.


      .

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Evan View Post
        The flight captain, BoeingBobby (CTPL 7,000,000 total hours, 8,000,000 on type) is pilot-in-command of a rare passenger flight on the 747-200. Once at cruise altitude, things get kind of boring so BoeingBobby suggests to the know-it-all F/O that they take turns sticking their heads out the smoke hatch to see who can do it the longest. The F/O goes first, but he gets immediately sucked out instead. BoeingBobby, concealing his laughter from the CVR, closes the hatch, continuing the flight while enjoying the absence of some snot-nosed F/O going off about procedure this and procedure that. Unfortunately classic 747's, which mostly live in the desert, sometimes have snakes on board, one of which has been hiding behind the rudder pedals, and which now strikes out and bites BoeingBobby in the ankle, temporarily paralyzingly him but not affecting his ability to speak, let alone rant. He uses his last strength to push the FA call button and ask for a little help.
        What about all that long paragraph with "both pilots (and the flight engineer, in the 747-200) had the fish"? For the sake of brevity, I mean.

        In the main cabin, the FA makes an announcement, asking everybody to remain calm but does anyone know how to fly a plane.
        That's ok, as long as the FA doesn't disclose that we also run out of coffee.

        3WE, who happens to be on this flight, immediately raises his hand but before he can speak he is interrupted by a loud creaking sound, a sound of bending plastic against flesh, as a giant unfolds himself from the economy class seat in front of him, unbending and rising like a mighty tree, casting his shadow down upon the speechless masses.
        LOL, that was very epic.

        It is Gabriel.

        "How's the legroom up there?" He asks hopefully.
        "Pretty good", the FA replies,"But do you know how an airplane works?"

        Gabriel launches into a Gabriellien explanation of how an airplane works but, after about ten minutes, with time running out and nobody having any idea of what he is saying, the FA gently interrupts him and ushers him upstairs into the cockpit on blind faith.

        And then we find out the answer to the burning question: Can a mere GA instrument-rated pilot-of-the-millennium fly and navigate a 747-200 from cruise down to the runway with only his basic airmanship and a bellicose veteran flight captain to give him instructions?.
        I am not instrument rated. Other than that, this is a fantastic story. When is the book out? Or better, the movie?
        Really nice writing!!!

        --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
        --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Evan View Post
          Ok, how about the scenario all flight desk pilots dream about:

          The flight captain, BoeingBobby (CTPL 7,000,000 total hours, 8,000,000 on type) is pilot-in-command of a rare passenger flight on the 747-200. Once at cruise altitude, things get kind of boring so BoeingBobby suggests to the know-it-all F/O that they take turns sticking their heads out the smoke hatch to see who can do it the longest. The F/O goes first, but he gets immediately sucked out instead. BoeingBobby, concealing his laughter from the CVR, closes the hatch, continuing the flight while enjoying the absence of some snot-nosed F/O going off about procedure this and procedure that. Unfortunately classic 747's, which mostly live in the desert, sometimes have snakes on board, one of which has been hiding behind the rudder pedals, and which now strikes out and bites BoeingBobby in the ankle, temporarily paralyzingly him but not affecting his ability to speak, let alone rant. He uses his last strength to push the FA call button and ask for a little help.

          In the main cabin, the FA makes an announcement, asking everybody to remain calm but does anyone know how to fly a plane. 3WE, who happens to be on this flight, immediately raises his hand but before he can speak he is interrupted by a loud creaking sound, a sound of bending plastic against flesh, as a giant unfolds himself from the economy class seat in front of him, unbending and rising like a mighty tree, casting his shadow down upon the speechless masses.

          It is Gabriel.

          "How's the legroom up there?" He asks hopefully.
          "Pretty good", the FA replies,"But do you know how an airplane works?"

          Gabriel launches into a Gabriellien explanation of how an airplane works but, after about ten minutes, with time running out and nobody having any idea of what he is saying, the FA gently interrupts him and ushers him upstairs into the cockpit on blind faith.

          And then we find out the answer to the burning question: Can a mere GA instrument-rated pilot-of-the-millennium fly and navigate a 747-200 from cruise down to the runway with only his basic airmanship and a bellicose veteran flight captain to give him instructions?

          To make it interesting: Ceiling overcast at 2000, visibility unlimited below that. Light crosswind so we get some rudder in. Straight in final to a 10,000ft runway. Automatics are allowed down to the FAF (or maybe down to 500ft). Fuel in board for two missed approaches.

          If he nails it on the first approach, maybe change it to Kai Tak's RWY 13 and, if he nails that, to Paro, Bhutan.


          .
          Oh this one is getting pretty close to the one on the Junkers thread.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
            What about all that long paragraph with "both pilots (and the flight engineer, in the 747-200) had the fish"? For the sake of brevity, I mean.
            Eh, maybe too much of a plot convenience.

            That's ok, as long as the FA doesn't disclose that we also run out of coffee.
            No, we don't want people to panic.

            When is the book out? Or better, the movie?
            I'm waiting to find out how it ends!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
              So the big day is approaching. This coming Thursday, Gabriel will get to show me and a couple of simulator instructors how he can land a 747/200 at maximum landing weight by visual means only. He will be flying the same simulator that all of the VC-25 and E-4 pilots train in from the USAF. I am going to set the sim up on a 10 mile final, fully configured to land, gear and flaps down (30 degrees), on speed and on glide path. Wind will be right down the runway at 10 knots. He will have the airspeed bugs set for landing ref and I will give him a target N1 for the proper power setting. There will be NO localizer or Glideslope information available, and NO PAPI or VASI. I am hoping that he does a video for you all. Wish him luck!
              As he's my friend, I always wish him luck, and always a hand of air under the fuselage!

              You've published some details, but if I had to do it with my only semi-pro LH-B744 simulator (by Randazzo), there are some questions open. Don't know if Gabe and you discussed it without my knowledge but...
              1. ICAO code (e.g. KMIA or EDDL)?
              2. If atc has already given us the proper rwy (as I assume, on a 10 nmi final), which one is it (e.g. the EDDL 23L)?

              If you gave him the EDDL 23L, and not something which is totally inappropriate for a Boeing 747, I'd guess he'll do it.

              [One or two years ago I mentioned here an airport which has become famous with One Boeing 747: KGCN . But that indeed rather seems like a task for Bob. I offer you a pilot seat in a Boeing 747, with an a/c weight that enables you to go around, of course, arr KGCN, alt 28,000, with more than enough nmi to achieve a perfect landing, glide slope and vnav is off.
              The question at KGCN is, can we do it? - Yes we can!]

              Old school navigation, babe. And I know that in a B744 you can work like in a B742. Imagine, the temperatures on the apron are too much for the fmc, up to 103°F at EDDL this Tuesday... But the 747 works like a charm!

              So, do it Gabe!
              The German long haul is alive, since more than 60 years.
              The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
              And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
              This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post
                As he's my friend, I always wish him luck, and always a hand of air under the fuselage!

                You've published some details, but if I had to do it with my only semi-pro LH-B744 simulator (by Randazzo), there are some questions open. Don't know if Gabe and you discussed it without my knowledge but...
                1. ICAO code (e.g. KMIA or EDDL)?
                2. If atc has already given us the proper rwy (as I assume, on a 10 nmi final), which one is it (e.g. the EDDL 23L)?

                If you gave him the EDDL 23L, and not something which is totally inappropriate for a Boeing 747, I'd guess he'll do it.

                [One or two years ago I mentioned here an airport which has become famous with One Boeing 747: KGCN . But that indeed rather seems like a task for Bob. I offer you a pilot seat in a Boeing 747, with an a/c weight that enables you to go around, of course, arr KGCN, alt 28,000, with more than enough nmi to achieve a perfect landing, glide slope is off.
                The question at KGCN is, can we do it? - Yes we can!]

                So, do it Gabe!
                9000', piece of cake. Used to land the 200 at KWRI runway 36 7126 x 150 ft. All the time.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                  9000', piece of cake. Used to land the 200 at KWRI runway 36 7126 x 150 ft. All the time.
                  That's what sometimes happens with my forum entries, I try to edit it while another answer yet has been given.. So.. if you didn't see yet my "hot summer Temperatures" in entry #21..

                  KWRI 36.. As I expected, It is not a rwy which I have ever used with Randazzos LH-B744 simulator. And this is what you gave to Gabe?

                  I have never expected that you are a fair sportsman, Little Bob. But do not exaggerate. Not with somebody who knows the a/c weight in a 747 which is needed for a landing at KWRI 36 . You talk about MLW (Maximum Landing Weight)?

                  Now you have given him a hard task. I only had accepted this task if I were able to arrive with less than MLW. But thats how you are don't you..

                  7126 ft, that's shorter than the EDDL 05L, and I have seen a/c which are much smaller than a 747-200, who had to use all the brakes, air brakes and reverse thrust included, on the EDDL 05L ...

                  Btw, MIA is cooler than DUS this Tuesday?! MIA says, 87°F . But here we'll definitely destroy (again) the 100°F ceiling.. What a summer.

                  Gabe.. before you try the KWRI 36 on board a 747-200, let us try the EDDL 05L , on board my LH-B744. We don't begin with the hardest task, don't we.
                  The German long haul is alive, since more than 60 years.
                  The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                  And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                  This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post
                    That's what sometimes happens with my forum entries, I try to edit it while another answer yet has been given.. So.. if you didn't see yet my "hot summer Temperatures" in entry #21..

                    KWRI 36.. As I expected, It is not a rwy which I have ever used with Randazzos LH-B744 simulator. And this is what you gave to Gabe?

                    I have never expected that you are a fair sportsman, Little Bob. But do not exaggerate. Not with somebody who knows the a/c weight in a 747 which is needed for a landing at KWRI 36 . You talk about MLW (Maximum Landing Weight)?

                    Now you have given him a hard task. I only had accepted this task if I were able to arrive with less than MLW. But thats how you are don't you..

                    7126 ft, that's shorter than the EDDL 05L, and I have seen a/c which are much smaller than a 747-200, who had to use all the brakes, air brakes and reverse thrust included, on the EDDL 05L ...

                    Btw, MIA is cooler than DUS this Tuesday?! MIA says, 87°F . But here we'll definitely destroy (again) the 100°F ceiling.. What a summer.

                    Gabe.. before you try the KWRI 36 on board a 747-200, let us try the EDDL 05L , on board my LH-B744. We don't begin with the hardest task, don't we.


                    I never said I was going to make Gabriel use a short runway. We will probably use 9 in KMIA or 31L at JFK.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                      I never said I was going to make Gabriel use a short runway.
                      um...

                      Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                      Maybe a touch and go on the deck of the Nimitz in Hong Kong harbor.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Ah Ok. And I'd never use the EDDL 05L for landing with a 747-400, due to displaced Threshold.. 8,864 ft (2700 m) for t/o, but clearly less than that for landing. I'd never use a rwy for landing which is not long enough for t/o, so, at EDDL, always the 05R on board a 747 , for landing and departure.

                        Less than 2700 m for a 747 landing...

                        Do you know one airport which I really somehow fear, due to displaced Threshold? KBOS. And since quite a long time, LH flies the B744 and the B748i in and out of KBOS. Probably it's only a matter of how often you do it. I'd rather take "my" B744 for a landing at EDDL than at KBOS. Both airports are fine for the 747, and jetphotos here in the database prove it.

                        But for Gabe? - KJFK 31L is a good one for the beginning: 14,511 ft. @ 13 AMSL . That's more than enough for me, with let's say clearly more than 5 years experience in Randazzos LH-B744 simulator, but would Gabe know the correct autobrake settings?

                        I wish you all the very best, Gabe!

                        PS: Today I sometimes wonder why this task was invented.. Hopefully not because one of my friends said, a 747 is so very easy, piece of cake. One of the very first 747 pilots, in 1969 or 1970, said something like "The 747 is great. It is ridiculously easy to fly." . But imho this was an ex-DC 8 pilot, or at least somebody who knows how fast a jet can get.

                        Gabe, did you challenge Bob?

                        PS: This is the evidence. This is why I know that the LH-B744 loves the snow. Since more than 10 years. The Victor Oscar @ KBOS:
                        D-ABVO in heavy Christmas traffic, December 2005

                        Snow. That somehow seems unreal today, doesn't it. KBOS this Tuesday says 94°F. Again, cooler than EDDL. Here we expect the 98, with a good chance of more than 100 in the sun.. And as far as I know until now, all rwys will be open today.

                        Here at DUS, we don't close the airport due to heat. Sorry, Hannover..
                        The German long haul is alive, since more than 60 years.
                        The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                        And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                        This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Until this summer 2018, I didn't know that runways are able to melt in the sun. But exactly that happened at EDDV, a few weeks ago. Have you ever heard of something like that?!

                          At Hannover, they had to close the whole airport, because the second rwy was closed due to maintenance..! I was not here in this forum when it happened, but as a rough guess, who helped out of the situation? "You are diverted to DUS." Or Hamburg. In both cases, that must have been a rather long day for the passengers.

                          Melted runways have never been shown in a simulator. You are good if you know what's not in a simulator. Diversions? Only if you ignore atc dll . Trust a human atc. And melted runways? I observe DUS since.. let's say 1983, with 3 or 5 hot summers since then. But melted runways?

                          I can't remember something like that here at DUS. We can handle the heat.
                          The German long haul is alive, since more than 60 years.
                          The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                          And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                          This is Lohausen International airport speaking, echo delta delta lima.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Evan View Post
                            um...
                            That was for the fun part AFTER the approaches into a 12000 plus foot runway. I am not even sure if the carrier is still programmed into that simulator.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Evan View Post
                              In the main cabin, the FA makes an announcement, asking everybody to remain calm but does anyone know how to fly a plane. 3WE, who happens to be on this flight, immediately raises his hand but before he can speak he is interrupted by a loud creaking sound, a sound of bending plastic against flesh, as a giant unfolds himself from the economy class seat in front of him, unbending and rising like a mighty tree, casting his shadow down upon the speechless masses.

                              It is Gabriel.

                              "How's the legroom up there?" He asks hopefully.
                              "Pretty good", the FA replies,"But do you know how an airplane works?"

                              Gabriel launches into a Gabriellien explanation of how an airplane works but, after about ten minutes, with time running out and nobody having any idea of what he is saying, the FA gently interrupts him and ushers him upstairs into the cockpit on blind faith.
                              Wrong.

                              Brian is sitting behind Gabriel and does not allow him to recline his seat, resulting in a ruckus...

                              3BS takes seat 1A, tapes over the AOA indicator (Airspeed indication is good enough).

                              The final approach includes several nice sweeping banks over dark green corn fields and a wave to a nearby aerial applicator.

                              The landing is a greaser, albeit 2000 feet past the fixed distance blocks and a bit left of center...some zig zag path and nastiness occurs with braking, although we turn off at the second to last turnoff- not quite square enough- and drop one of the mains into the grass...

                              Bobby states, "Told you you would have issues"
                              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                                Wrong.

                                Brian is sitting behind Gabriel and does not allow him to recline his seat, resulting in a ruckus...

                                3BS takes seat 1A, tapes over the AOA indicator (Airspeed indication is good enough).

                                The final approach includes several nice sweeping banks over dark green corn fields and a wave to a nearby aerial applicator.

                                The landing is a greaser, albeit 2000 feet past the fixed distance blocks and a bit left of center...some zig zag path and nastiness occurs with braking, although we turn off at the second to last turnoff- not quite square enough- and drop one of the mains into the grass...

                                Bobby states, "Told you you would have issues"

                                Bobby
                                If he makes it onto the runway he will have "passed". Me thinks you and Evan are a tad jealous. As an ex-check airman on the "Classic" I was never nit-picky except for radio work.

                                Comment

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