The date is set.

[Evan]

The one thing I plan on doing with Gabe is an RTO brake demonstration, and I am also going to turn off the anti-skid and try one to see what it does. VMCG is another good one for a demonstration.

Ok, how about the scenario all flight desk pilots dream about:

The flight captain, BoeingBobby (CTPL 7,000,000 total hours, 8,000,000 on type) is pilot-in-command of a rare passenger flight on the 747-200. Once at cruise altitude, things get kind of boring so BoeingBobby suggests to the know-it-all F/O that they take turns sticking their heads out the smoke hatch to see who can do it the longest. The F/O goes first, but he gets immediately sucked out instead. BoeingBobby, concealing his laughter from the CVR, closes the hatch, continuing the flight while enjoying the absence of some snot-nosed F/O going off about procedure this and procedure that. Unfortunately classic 747's, which mostly live in the desert, sometimes have snakes on board, one of which has been hiding behind the rudder pedals, and which now strikes out and bites BoeingBobby in the ankle, temporarily paralyzingly him but not affecting his ability to speak, let alone rant. He uses his last strength to push the FA call button and ask for a little help.

In the main cabin, the FA makes an announcement, asking everybody to remain calm but does anyone know how to fly a plane. 3WE, who happens to be on this flight, immediately raises his hand but before he can speak he is interrupted by a loud creaking sound, a sound of bending plastic against flesh, as a giant unfolds himself from the economy class seat in front of him, unbending and rising like a mighty tree, casting his shadow down upon the speechless masses.

It is Gabriel.

"How's the legroom up there?" He asks hopefully.
"Pretty good", the FA replies,"But do you know how an airplane works?"

Gabriel launches into a Gabriellien explanation of how an airplane works but, after about ten minutes, with time running out and nobody having any idea of what he is saying, the FA gently interrupts him and ushers him upstairs into the cockpit on blind faith.

And then we find out the answer to the burning question: Can a mere GA instrument-rated pilot-of-the-millennium fly and navigate a 747-200 from cruise down to the runway with only his basic airmanship and a bellicose veteran flight captain to give him instructions?

To make it interesting: Ceiling overcast at 2000, visibility unlimited below that. Light crosswind so we get some rudder in. Straight in final to a 10,000ft runway. Automatics are allowed down to the FAF (or maybe down to 500ft). Fuel in board for two missed approaches.

If he nails it on the first approach, maybe change it to Kai Tak's RWY 13 and, if he nails that, to Paro, Bhutan.


.

[BoeingBobby]

(in order of aviation forum impressiveness)

3) Hydraulics failure / clean or reduced configuration landing without spoilers

2) Fuel starvation / Gimli Glider cross control landing on a weekend dragstrip

1) Ditching in the Hudson.

The one thing I plan on doing with Gabe is an RTO brake demonstration, and I am also going to turn off the anti-skid and try one to see what it does. VMCG is another good one for a demonstration.

[Evan]

Hey, great idea!!! If BB agrees, let the forum propose some scenarios/situations that you would like me to try in the sim. BB and myself can pick a few and see how it goes.

(in order of aviation forum impressiveness)

3) Hydraulics failure / clean or reduced configuration landing without spoilers

2) Fuel starvation / Gimli Glider cross control landing on a weekend dragstrip

1) Ditching in the Hudson.

[3WE]

***When I flew the Tomahawk or Cessnas, I normally found myself doing the last several hundred feet at idle and with full flaps, which is an approach much steeper than the nominal 3 degrees. When I did an ILS in VMC or PAPI/VASI approach I found myself feeling all the time that I was way too low, and it felt very unnatural and uncomfortable.***

This is worrisome.

You get high, chop power and head down at an increased rate? This is where the 600K pounds (and change) will likely show itself as you flare the rapidly sinking airplane.

Worrisome, because what do they say about spool up times from big jet engines at idle?

Worrisome, because I have the same tendency and because overcoming it by following ‘external’ glide slope indicators (and eventually learning glide perspective) is what finally made for consistent, successful 747 landings with MSFS.

What is MSFS worth? The math makes for a virtual 747 that performs about like a real one with some reasonable visual clues, but no buttactile movements and unrealistic control feelings...AND you can change it’s livery with a few mouse clicks.

[Gabriel]

I am hoping that he does a video for you all.

At minimum I will have my cellphone with full battery and an additional SIM card. Let's see if I manage to get a go-pro or similar.

A YouTube video link will be made available here some time afterwards for all you to enjoy my delightful display of airmanship, or my clownish crashes or, more likely, both.

His option, however I personalty think he is going to have his hands full using both eyes landing a 630,000 pound 747 for the first time.

To be honest, beforehand I expect that keeping a stable flight path towards the runway (both horizontally and vertically) and the speed close to target will be the easy part. I expect the hard part to be the flare, for 2 reasons: 1) I will be already touching down and at eye height where I am not even starting to flare in the Tomahawk and 2) I have no feeling for the 747's pitch dynamics (how much control input it takes to pitch how much and how much pitch inertia there is) and, starting with a straight-in approach with everything already stable from the start, I will have little chance to practice pitch inputs before the flare. Maybe these easy conditions for the first attempt will be a handicap when the it's time to flare.

Hmmm...I suggest the following cowboy procedures.

Hey, great idea!!! If BB agrees, let the forum propose some scenarios/situations that you would like me to try in the sim. BB and myself can pick a few and see how it goes. Things can range from an ILS approach in IMC to a windshear escape to a V1 cut to a "we lost all the hydros and we only have the throttles". I will take it seriously and do my best. I don't mind what it is as long as it involves only stick-rudder-throttles and the six-pack plus raw VOR/DME/ADF/ILS navigation. Anything that requires tings like autopilot, autothrust, programming the FMS, dealing with specific procedures regarding the 747 systems, I would not know even how to start.

(Re: No ILS/VASI/PAPI) Either Gabe has decent visual glideslope perspective or he does not...

Well, there are tricks, like GS/2 and add a zero. For example, for 160 knots ground, 800 fpm will give you almost exactly 3 degrees.
On the other hand, knowing myself I think I will make steeper approaches. When I flew the Tomahawk or Cessnas, I normally found myself doing the last several hundred feet at idle and with full flaps, which is an approach much steeper than the nominal 3 degrees. When I did an ILS in VMC or PAPI/VASI approach I found myself feeling all the time that I was way too low, and it felt very unnatural and uncomfortable.

We have the Sim for a couple of hours, he will get a chance to have some fun.

Yay!!!!

Just "some" fun? That's the understatement of the year.
The 2 days before the sim I will be in Disney World (for the 1st time). I am sure it will be fun. I am sure it will be nowhere as fun as the sim!!!

As I said I will take it seriously: whatever the situation, I will really try my best to fly the plane, not to crash, and to end it with a "perfect" landing (one from which we can walk away and the sim can be re-used without further maintenance). But who said that serious things cannot be a lot of fun too?

[TeeVee]

what time? maybe we can all meet for a burger at the pilots' favorite hangout after....

[BoeingBobby]

Gabe is the one that called the parameters by accepting my original challenge. We have the Sim for a couple of hours, he will get a chance to have some fun. Maybe a touch and go on the deck of the Nimitz in Hong Kong harbor.

[3WE]

the pilot sits 20 feet lower relative to the ground could make things worse rather than better...

Google 3 bar VASI...


I also think the four standard PAPI lights may offer something too.

[elaw]

Yeah, no PAPI/VASI seems a little harsh. On the other hand, a PAPI/VASI that's calibrated for an airplane where the pilot sits 20 feet lower relative to the ground could make things worse rather than better...

[3WE]

***I am going to set the sim up on a 10 mile final, fully configured to land, gear and flaps down (30 degrees), on speed and on glide path. Wind will be right down the runway at 10 knots. He will have the airspeed bugs set for landing ref and I will give him a target N1 for the proper power setting. There will be NO localizer or Glideslope information available, and NO PAPI or VASI.***

As I think about this, it seems like an extremely unrealistic, non-normal test of flying abilities- or should I say not_test of flying abilities.

You have to do nothing to capture the ILS, slow the plane, turn the plane, configure the plane, maintain speed, etc.- it's handed over to you in near-perfect shape- but then, you have nothing in the way of an ILS nor visual glideslope indications. Pretty sure SOP is "tune the ILS" for almost all landings (including visual) except for when the ILS is out of service. And then, I really struggle to find a runway without a PAIP/VASI. Heck, it's even a little bit hard to find a general aviation airport without a VASI/PAPI these days.

Seriously- how often is a transport aircraft landed (in the US) without any visual or electronic guidance?

Either Gabe has decent visual glideslope perspective or he does not...

What does this do to test his ability to climb, descend, control speed, maneuver the aircraft, line up on a runway- AND you are giving him known-fat-dumb-and-happy power setting (can you say more deviations from reality?)

All he's being tested on is visual glideslope perspective and can he make minor corrections and flare enough not to bend anything...a small part of Evan's detested cowboy airmanship skills.

...a strange demonstration of skills this will be.

[elaw]

Will there be simulated fire/rescue crews waiting next to the runway?

[vaztr]

Or...

Pull up relentlessly as other 10,000+ hour PFs have done in the past

[3WE]

So the big day is approaching. This coming Thursday, Gabriel will get to show me and a couple of simulator instructors how he can land a 747/200 at maximum landing weight by visual means only. He will be flying the same simulator that all of the VC-25 and E-4 pilots train in from the USAF. I am going to set the sim up on a 10 mile final, fully configured to land, gear and flaps down (30 degrees), on speed and on glide path. Wind will be right down the runway at 10 knots. He will have the airspeed bugs set for landing ref and I will give him a target N1 for the proper power setting. There will be NO localizer or Glideslope information available, and NO PAPI or VASI. I am hoping that he does a video for you all. Wish him luck!

Hmmm...I suggest the following cowboy procedures.

Grab the yoke and throttles and rudder pedals (ok, don't grab the pedals)...try not to move anything.

Look out the front window (this procedure should be conducted a few times every second for the whole shebang.

Make small control inputs as you fly towards the runway.

When nearing the threshold, pull back gently...glance at the VSI (since you do NOT have Bobbby's multi-hour buttocks)...hopefully it's 200 FPM ish...

Continue looking out the window. Use yoke and pedals and power control in a manner similar to what you do in a Tommy- Hawk...

Use aereoengineering and phugoid knowledge to know that the plane will be much less responsive.

[vaztr]

Jealous

[BoeingBobby]

Don't forget the blindfold. Trust the force, Gabe.

His option, however I personalty think he is going to have his hands full using both eyes landing a 630,000 pound 747 for the first time.