So the big day is approaching. This coming Thursday, Gabriel will get to show me and a couple of simulator instructors how he can land a 747/200 at maximum landing weight by visual means only. He will be flying the same simulator that all of the VC-25 and E-4 pilots train in from the USAF. I am going to set the sim up on a 10 mile final, fully configured to land, gear and flaps down (30 degrees), on speed and on glide path. Wind will be right down the runway at 10 knots. He will have the airspeed bugs set for landing ref and I will give him a target N1 for the proper power setting. There will be NO localizer or Glideslope information available, and NO PAPI or VASI. I am hoping that he does a video for you all. Wish him luck!
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Originally posted by BoeingBobby View PostSo the big day is approaching. This coming Thursday, Gabriel will get to show me and a couple of simulator instructors how he can land a 747/200 at maximum landing weight by visual means only. He will be flying the same simulator that all of the VC-25 and E-4 pilots train in from the USAF. I am going to set the sim up on a 10 mile final, fully configured to land, gear and flaps down (30 degrees), on speed and on glide path. Wind will be right down the runway at 10 knots. He will have the airspeed bugs set for landing ref and I will give him a target N1 for the proper power setting. There will be NO localizer or Glideslope information available, and NO PAPI or VASI. I am hoping that he does a video for you all. Wish him luck!
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Originally posted by BoeingBobby View PostSo the big day is approaching. This coming Thursday, Gabriel will get to show me and a couple of simulator instructors how he can land a 747/200 at maximum landing weight by visual means only. He will be flying the same simulator that all of the VC-25 and E-4 pilots train in from the USAF. I am going to set the sim up on a 10 mile final, fully configured to land, gear and flaps down (30 degrees), on speed and on glide path. Wind will be right down the runway at 10 knots. He will have the airspeed bugs set for landing ref and I will give him a target N1 for the proper power setting. There will be NO localizer or Glideslope information available, and NO PAPI or VASI. I am hoping that he does a video for you all. Wish him luck!
Grab the yoke and throttles and rudder pedals (ok, don't grab the pedals)...try not to move anything.
Look out the front window (this procedure should be conducted a few times every second for the whole shebang.
Make small control inputs as you fly towards the runway.
When nearing the threshold, pull back gently...glance at the VSI (since you do NOT have Bobbby's multi-hour buttocks)...hopefully it's 200 FPM ish...
Continue looking out the window. Use yoke and pedals and power control in a manner similar to what you do in a Tommy- Hawk...
Use aereoengineering and phugoid knowledge to know that the plane will be much less responsive.Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
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Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post***I am going to set the sim up on a 10 mile final, fully configured to land, gear and flaps down (30 degrees), on speed and on glide path. Wind will be right down the runway at 10 knots. He will have the airspeed bugs set for landing ref and I will give him a target N1 for the proper power setting. There will be NO localizer or Glideslope information available, and NO PAPI or VASI.***
You have to do nothing to capture the ILS, slow the plane, turn the plane, configure the plane, maintain speed, etc.- it's handed over to you in near-perfect shape- but then, you have nothing in the way of an ILS nor visual glideslope indications. Pretty sure SOP is "tune the ILS" for almost all landings (including visual) except for when the ILS is out of service. And then, I really struggle to find a runway without a PAIP/VASI. Heck, it's even a little bit hard to find a general aviation airport without a VASI/PAPI these days.
Seriously- how often is a transport aircraft landed (in the US) without any visual or electronic guidance?
Either Gabe has decent visual glideslope perspective or he does not...
What does this do to test his ability to climb, descend, control speed, maneuver the aircraft, line up on a runway- AND you are giving him known-fat-dumb-and-happy power setting (can you say more deviations from reality?)
All he's being tested on is visual glideslope perspective and can he make minor corrections and flare enough not to bend anything...a small part of Evan's detested cowboy airmanship skills.
...a strange demonstration of skills this will be.Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
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Yeah, no PAPI/VASI seems a little harsh. On the other hand, a PAPI/VASI that's calibrated for an airplane where the pilot sits 20 feet lower relative to the ground could make things worse rather than better...Be alert! America needs more lerts.
Eric Law
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Originally posted by elaw View Postthe pilot sits 20 feet lower relative to the ground could make things worse rather than better...
I also think the four standard PAPI lights may offer something too.
Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
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I am hoping that he does a video for you all.
A YouTube video link will be made available here some time afterwards for all you to enjoy my delightful display of airmanship, or my clownish crashes or, more likely, both.
His option, however I personalty think he is going to have his hands full using both eyes landing a 630,000 pound 747 for the first time.
Hmmm...I suggest the following cowboy procedures.
(Re: No ILS/VASI/PAPI) Either Gabe has decent visual glideslope perspective or he does not...
On the other hand, knowing myself I think I will make steeper approaches. When I flew the Tomahawk or Cessnas, I normally found myself doing the last several hundred feet at idle and with full flaps, which is an approach much steeper than the nominal 3 degrees. When I did an ILS in VMC or PAPI/VASI approach I found myself feeling all the time that I was way too low, and it felt very unnatural and uncomfortable.
We have the Sim for a couple of hours, he will get a chance to have some fun.
Just "some" fun? That's the understatement of the year.
The 2 days before the sim I will be in Disney World (for the 1st time). I am sure it will be fun. I am sure it will be nowhere as fun as the sim!!!
As I said I will take it seriously: whatever the situation, I will really try my best to fly the plane, not to crash, and to end it with a "perfect" landing (one from which we can walk away and the sim can be re-used without further maintenance). But who said that serious things cannot be a lot of fun too?
--- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
--- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---
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Originally posted by Gabriel View Post***When I flew the Tomahawk or Cessnas, I normally found myself doing the last several hundred feet at idle and with full flaps, which is an approach much steeper than the nominal 3 degrees. When I did an ILS in VMC or PAPI/VASI approach I found myself feeling all the time that I was way too low, and it felt very unnatural and uncomfortable.***
You get high, chop power and head down at an increased rate? This is where the 600K pounds (and change) will likely show itself as you flare the rapidly sinking airplane.
Worrisome, because what do they say about spool up times from big jet engines at idle?
Worrisome, because I have the same tendency and because overcoming it by following ‘external’ glide slope indicators (and eventually learning glide perspective) is what finally made for consistent, successful 747 landings with MSFS.
What is MSFS worth? The math makes for a virtual 747 that performs about like a real one with some reasonable visual clues, but no buttactile movements and unrealistic control feelings...AND you can change it’s livery with a few mouse clicks.Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostHey, great idea!!! If BB agrees, let the forum propose some scenarios/situations that you would like me to try in the sim. BB and myself can pick a few and see how it goes.
3) Hydraulics failure / clean or reduced configuration landing without spoilers
2) Fuel starvation / Gimli Glider cross control landing on a weekend dragstrip
1) Ditching in the Hudson.
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