Originally posted by Evan
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Vintage JU-52 aircraft crashes in Swiss Alps
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Originally posted by Evan View Post
Well, share some of your brilliance with me. You are approaching that pass. A gust knocks your airspeed out from under you and you enter a stall. You can't climb. You can't turn. You can't descend. You can't power out of it.
What would BoeingBobby do (aside from never being there in the first place)?
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Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
Brilliant statement! Proves my point about your knowledge of actual pilotage.
What would BoeingBobby do (aside from never being there in the first place)?
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Originally posted by Evan View Post
Have you seen this mountainside? There was no way to pilot out of this one, once the pilots had piloted themselves into it.
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Originally posted by Evan View Post
Have you seen this mountainside? There was no way to pilot out of this one, once the pilots had piloted themselves into it.
While I didn’t make the suggestion, it seems a lot smarter than reducing power and spinning in. I do concur that something was lacking with this bunch- perhaps they were too accustomed to having after-burners.
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostNo. In certain circumstances, a controlled crash into a mountainside can be survivable. The prospect is not good, of course, but the chances are better than a spin and a vertical crash at the bottom.
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostNo. In certain circumstances, a controlled crash into a mountainside can be survivable. The prospect is not good, of course, but the chances are better than a spin and a vertical crash at the bottom.
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Originally posted by Evan View PostOk, I concede it is probably better to die instantly by slamming into a granite-faced alpine mountain than to experience the terror of diving into a valley. If that's what you mean.
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Originally posted by Evan View PostFace it. The gross pilot error here was being there in the first place. ANY pilot, regardless of background, who had safely firmly in mind would not have been there.
Especially since that was the "normal" way for them to operate.
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Originally posted by Evan View PostYou mean during sudden windshear? You mean monitoring the sudden drop in airspeed would have saved them?
But for me the most important part was that the operator as a whole was operating with a very poor safety culture. In that context, pilots operate with a very poor safety culture no matter if they are ex-military or not. Because pilots that want to keep high standards when flying for an operator with a poor safety culture either end up lowering their standards or resign or are fired.
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Originally posted by 3WE View Post
Originally posted by GabrielIt's generally better to crash in control than out of control.
Face it. The gross pilot error here was being there in the first place. ANY pilot, regardless of background, who had safely firmly in mind would not have been there.
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Originally posted by Evan View PostYou mean monitoring the sudden drop in airspeed would have saved them?
Footnote: Sorry, but monitoring airspeed is directly linked to maintaining airspeed in my mind, not a type-specific checklist of 1. Monitor, 2. A if fast then, B. If about right, then C. if too slow, then.....I'm sorry that these sorts of things can't be reconciled in your mind. I find the linkage to be quite natural.
Long answer:
-We know you don't listen to me (that's fine)
-We know you don't listen to professional pilots (that's sad)
-BUT I THOUGHT YOU LISTENED TO GABRIEL
-Oh, that's right, you don't listen much at all.
Originally posted by Gabriel paraphrasedIt's generally better to crash in control than out of control.
The report said the pilots slowed up and reduced power while descending. I dunno the type specific checklist for a Junkers, but that would seem to be a way to improve your ability to stall. Had they powered up and kept their speed up...JMO, but maybe they don't stall.
Am I absolutely certain they could have avoided a crash? No, but the report talks about the pilots reducing speed and power and talks about updrafts and downdrafts MORE THAN HORRENDOUS SPEED-LOSS WIND SHEARS.
Gabriel: Any opinion?
Anyway, never mind, the crash was caused by systematic deviation from procedures by military folks who live to ignore procedure.
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