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Vintage JU-52 aircraft crashes in Swiss Alps

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  • #46
    Originally posted by elaw View Post
    With a headwind, it takes longer to get to the accident site. So when you arrive, the aircraft is older and thus more likely to experience a failure.
    Excellent, as always.

    Still, I don't like the idea of the turbulent airflow over the mountain as the mountain stalls...the stalled mountain doesn't drop fast enough to get out of the aircraft's way and MIGHT generate a downdraft, too.
    Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by 3WE View Post
      Excellent, as always.

      Still, I don't like the idea of the turbulent airflow over the mountain as the mountain stalls...the stalled mountain doesn't drop fast enough to get out of the aircraft's way and MIGHT generate a downdraft, too.
      Oh. You again.

      In this moment, I really wonder if Mr Greg Feith is a jetphotos forum member. He is THE man who I'd ask for fatal aviation accidents where no CVR and no FDR is available. One or two weeks ago, I assumed that Mr Hugo Junkers, who invented the JU-52 so that it was ready for her inauguration flight
      on March 7th 1932 (more than 86 years ago)
      never in his life planned to cross the High Alps in such a large aircraft. I mean, we have to face one fact.

      The most insane man on this planet died April 30th 1945. That's a fact which every year in Germany is celebrated, with a national holiday on May 1st.

      Between 33 and 45, this ill man simply did not see the need to cross the High Alps. Why not. Because in Milano, there his bosom friend sat..

      But today, we try, or better, we have tried to use, or even better we have tried to misuse this large JU-52 which in my eyes is not much more than a 'Lastensegler' with 3 engines (now the specialists can talk) against a 25 knot strong headwind.

      A wingspan of 29,52 meters. I should ask Mr Carsten Spohr, but this is a wingspan where we don't accept 3 engines without turbo in an unpressurized cabin,
      but rather 2 jet engines, don't we. Especially @ alt 14,000.

      Der Unfall ist immer noch ungeklärt. In English, the fatal aviation accident until today has not been solved completely.
      That's what airlines are good for, amongst others,
      The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
      And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
      Aviation enthusiast, since more than 35 years with home airport EDDL.

      Comment


      • #48
        Swiss Air Force crossed the Alps daily (well work days only) with JU-52 for almost 40 years, you just need to find a way through it.
        May 1st is a worker day celebration, nothing to do with an evil man who doesn't have a place in a thread about an accident that took the life of 20

        Alex

        Comment


        • #49
          A little bit of education for you LH....... because as usual, you’re talking rubbish.

          https://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/germany/may-day
          If it 'ain't broken........ Don't try to mend it !

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post
            Oh. You again.

            In this moment, I really wonder if Mr Greg Feith is a jetphotos forum member. He is THE man who I'd ask for fatal aviation accidents where no CVR and no FDR is available. One or two weeks ago, I assumed that Mr Hugo Junkers, who invented the JU-52 so that it was ready for her inauguration flight
            on March 7th 1932 (more than 86 years ago)
            never in his life planned to cross the High Alps in such a large aircraft. I mean, we have to face one fact.

            The most insane man on this planet died April 30th 1945. That's a fact which every year in Germany is celebrated, with a national holiday on May 1st.

            Between 33 and 45, this ill man simply did not see the need to cross the High Alps. Why not. Because in Milano, there his bosom friend sat..

            But today, we try, or better, we have tried to use, or even better we have tried to misuse this large JU-52 which in my eyes is not much more than a 'Lastensegler' with 3 engines (now the specialists can talk) against a 25 knot strong headwind.

            A wingspan of 29,52 meters. I should ask Mr Carsten Spohr, but this is a wingspan where we don't accept 3 engines without turbo in an unpressurized cabin,
            but rather 2 jet engines, don't we. Especially @ alt 14,000.

            Der Unfall ist immer noch ungeklärt. In English, the fatal aviation accident until today has not been solved completely.
            This is one of your best yet! And again I will try to explain to you, aircraft are designed, not invented. Unless you are maybe speaking of Leonardo da Vinci or Otto Lilienthal.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by brianw999 View Post
              A little bit of education for you LH....... because as usual, you’re talking rubbish.

              https://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/germany/may-day
              LOL. That's very cute of you.

              It has become so far that a man from the British Islands has to tell me what we in Germany celebrate on which day... (?!)

              Not really. I know that May 1st has nothing to do with the idiot who began world war II . But you can see it as a test. And you passed.

              Congrats!
              That's what airlines are good for, amongst others,
              The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
              And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
              Aviation enthusiast, since more than 35 years with home airport EDDL.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Alex - Spot-This ! View Post
                Swiss Air Force crossed the Alps daily (well work days only) with JU-52 for almost 40 years, you just need to find a way through it.
                May 1st is a worker day celebration, nothing to do with an evil man who doesn't have a place in a thread about an accident that took the life of 20

                Alex
                you just need to find a way through it.
                Yes. And the Ju 52 Flight Captain had .. 943 Flight hours on type, i.e. 943 Flight hours in the left seat of a Junkers Ju-52 ?!
                The case still is unsolved, which is a good thing. Otherwise I hadn't found Brian's excellent attempt to tell me more about German history...

                Is it true that the Flight Captain always is the one with the most Flight hours on type?

                I mean, in this case, that would make a difference, 943 flight hours on type vs 297 flight hours in the cockpit of a Junkers Ju-52.

                But I assume that both pilots were in the cockpit by the time that the Junkers tri-propeller began its last descent on Earth. I still can't quite believe it.
                Flight Captain: age 62, and his F/O 63? Both with an Airbus A330/Airbus A340 background.

                Thus, I'd say, you name an a/c type and these two pilots take you everywhere! What the hell has happened there in August 2018?

                PS: It was a very very very hot summer. And we both know that even jet engines are weaker when it's hot, not to mention propeller engines without turbo..
                But again, 943 flight hours on type for the Ju-52 Flight Captain. So, what the hell..
                That's what airlines are good for, amongst others,
                The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                Aviation enthusiast, since more than 35 years with home airport EDDL.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by LH-B744 View Post
                  LOL. That's very cute of you.

                  It has become so far that a man from the British Islands has to tell me what we in Germany celebrate on which day... (?!)

                  Not really. I know that May 1st has nothing to do with the idiot who began world war II . But you can see it as a test. And you passed.

                  Congrats!
                  We have missed you. Have you met Davey yet?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                    We have missed you. Have you met Davey yet?
                    Oh, Dear Christ!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
                      Oh, Dear Christ!
                      Don’t despair- I deduce that Davey did died in the daily diverse dialog.
                      Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post
                        We have missed you. Have you met Davey yet?
                        Oh cum on. I don't believe you!

                        I don't know an animal with the name Davey. Who is it. Your mouse/cat/rat/dog?
                        That's what airlines are good for, amongst others,
                        The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                        And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                        Aviation enthusiast, since more than 35 years with home airport EDDL.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                          Don’t despair- I deduce that Davey did died in the daily diverse dialog.
                          Davey is his mother. right.
                          That's what airlines are good for, amongst others,
                          The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                          And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                          Aviation enthusiast, since more than 35 years with home airport EDDL.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                            I’d prefer to not have a headwind when flying uphill. The hill might exceed the critical AOA.
                            Who says that they were flying uphill?

                            I mean, this seems to be the first case where everybody who is NOT a professional aviation safety investigator, e.g. me, is really able to develop his very own theory.

                            No CVR, no FDR. This might also be the very first case for me, where a rather large passenger aircraft has an accident with really

                            Zero survivors,

                            and no data has been recorded inflight (unlike March 2015) !

                            And what is a rather large aircraft. I'd say a Beech Baron 58 still is rather small (2 pilots + 4 passengers). And the engines are comparable, without Turbo,
                            ceiling (B58_), also unpressurized: 20,000

                            A Beech King Air 350 is different. 2 Turbopropellers.

                            But everything which is larger than a King Air 350 is rather large, e.g. the Junkers Ju-52, good for 2 pilots + 1 female flight attendant + 17 passengers.
                            20 dead humans, and neither CVR nor FDR is available (!).

                            If you ask me, that's unprecedented. At least as long as I am here in this forum.

                            PS: On German TV they showed one case in the aviation history of the last.. 15 or 25 years,
                            where a rather large multi engined propeller aircraft had an accident. Hopefully I'm able to find that case again today. During that broadcast, there was an expert for
                            aviation safety, who mainly said, without precise data, the investigators have to really collect the pieces.

                            Which means, collect the pieces.

                            Imho, the expert was this man:
                            Flight Captain John Cox, aviation safety.
                            Last edited by LH-B744; 2018-10-13, 02:10. Reason: Two jet pilots + 1 female flight attendant. And no data?!
                            That's what airlines are good for, amongst others,
                            The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                            And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                            Aviation enthusiast, since more than 35 years with home airport EDDL.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              LHB:

                              You missed Daveys brief appearance.

                              He wondered if any of us had time stamped video of a light twin crash and told us that training on hand flying was inadequate.

                              He was most enthusiastic and claimed a vague level of flight time.

                              He seemed inexperienced in the ways of discussion fora parlour talk.

                              He made occasional overly bold and not quite accurate statements.

                              He may have wanted more of an audience than a discussion.

                              He seemed to be active while you were away.

                              One might ask if LHB is Davey...
                              Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Et voilá,

                                If you're really lookin for something which was on TV not too long ago, you should find it. Falitz is the name of that unlucky, now dead Flight Captain.
                                Indeed only two years older than me, when he destroyed his a/c. A real antihero.

                                And this was his multi-engined propeller:
                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Airlink_Flight_5719

                                Slam dunk. Which means, you try to avoid low clouds which could contain ice. You fly as high as possible until the top of descent is something like a
                                red alarm.

                                An expression which I learned only one or two days ago. But I also know why I haven't heard of it before.

                                That's nothing which I would do without somebody like Chesley Sullenberger III as my Captain,
                                if more than zero passengers are on board.

                                This Flight # 5719 is an example, where F/O Chad Erickson should have controlled the whole flight as the PF. Because Falitz was not really a captain, he often yelled through the whole a/c, so that even the flight attendants knew that he simply was a social desaster.

                                Chad should have controlled the whole flight, he even was able to fly uneventful under the eyes of his Flight instructors, in contrast to Falitz...
                                Now, both are dead. Which is unfair in my eyes.

                                PS: Well. Sometimes,
                                I don't know why rather large propellers, and the Jetstream 31 is yet another example for that type, 2 pilots + 19 passengers,
                                do not learn from..
                                I just wanted to say, from the 747.
                                But isn't that true.
                                The Jetstream 31 was not equipped with a Ground Proximity Warning System that was required on larger aircraft.
                                If in both cases (Ju-52 and Jetstream 31) that had been a 747, in both cases we today had precise data, precise the conversation in the cockpit,

                                although I am sure that the Ju-52 Flight Captain, with his 62 years of experience in life, was on a level of social quality, which was like a completely different planet, compared to Falitz.

                                Large propellers don't necessarily provide GPWS?

                                So, is a large propeller (with clearly more than 15 souls on board), an exception
                                where nothing is used
                                which Flight Captain John Cox recommends for passenger jets?!

                                If that's true, I should only use jets - as a passenger, from now on!

                                PS: And I should look the Captain into his eyes to try to perceive if he's an asshole. Which in my career as a passenger until today never was the case.
                                Falitz? No, I've been lucky until today.
                                Last edited by LH-B744; 2018-10-13, 03:21. Reason: You fly alone? ok. But with passengers on board? Not seriously.
                                That's what airlines are good for, amongst others,
                                The Gold Member in the 747 club, 50 years since the first LH 747.
                                And constantly advanced, 744 and 748 /w upper and lower EICAS.
                                Aviation enthusiast, since more than 35 years with home airport EDDL.

                                Comment

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