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Alrighty then!
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Final report out
AVH's summary (and reconstruction video)
The level of deep analysis that they were able to do and the amount of data they were able to obtain or reconstruct is truly amazing, given that the plane was not equipped with recorders. They must have invested a lot of time, effort and resources.
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So, basically an unrecoverable stall at low altitude brought on by windshear and exacerbated by an out-of-range COG?Originally posted by Gabriel View PostFinal report out
AVH's summary (and reconstruction video)
The level of deep analysis that they were able to do and the amount of data they were able to obtain or reconstruct is truly amazing, given that the plane was not equipped with recorders. They must have invested a lot of time, effort and resources.Comment
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More than that. If you look at the video, before the stall they were above parts of the surrounding terrain (i.e. they had an escape route). Very possibly if they had not tried to climb so desperately and just firewalled the throttles and keep Vy or Vx, they would have gotten out of it.Originally posted by Evan View Post
Oh, and they should not have been that low to begin with.
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Instead of addressing “the apparent trend for military pilots to systematically ignore procedures”, I am more concerned “with the apparent trend to not_monitor airspeed”.
Anyone have insight or possible solutions?Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.Comment
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You mean during sudden windshear? You mean monitoring the sudden drop in airspeed would have saved them?Originally posted by 3WE View Post
If you put yourself in that low altitude position in mountainous terrain subject to windshear and your airspeed suddenly goes from healthy to stall and you lack the power to power out of it and the altitude to recover and lowering the AoA means crashing into a mountain, is this a problem of piloting technique or a problem of piloting judgement?Comment
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Short answer: Yes.Originally posted by Evan View Post
Footnote: Sorry, but monitoring airspeed is directly linked to maintaining airspeed in my mind, not a type-specific checklist of 1. Monitor, 2. A if fast then, B. If about right, then C. if too slow, then.....I'm sorry that these sorts of things can't be reconciled in your mind. I find the linkage to be quite natural.
Long answer:
-We know you don't listen to me (that's fine)
-We know you don't listen to professional pilots (that's sad)
-BUT I THOUGHT YOU LISTENED TO GABRIEL
-Oh, that's right, you don't listen much at all.
There's some truth there, although arguably diving straight into the ground resulted in a much quicker death with little to no pain versus hitting mountainsides in control?Originally posted by Gabriel paraphrased
The report said the pilots slowed up and reduced power while descending. I dunno the type specific checklist for a Junkers, but that would seem to be a way to improve your ability to stall. Had they powered up and kept their speed up...JMO, but maybe they don't stall.
Am I absolutely certain they could have avoided a crash? No, but the report talks about the pilots reducing speed and power and talks about updrafts and downdrafts MORE THAN HORRENDOUS SPEED-LOSS WIND SHEARS.
Gabriel: Any opinion?
Anyway, never mind, the crash was caused by systematic deviation from procedures by military folks who live to ignore procedure.Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.Comment
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Really? It's better to crash into a mountainside under control than to crash into a valley out of control?Originally posted by 3WE View Post
Face it. The gross pilot error here was being there in the first place. ANY pilot, regardless of background, who had safely firmly in mind would not have been there.Comment
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Did you actually read the full description of the events in AVH or you stopped at "the military pilots crew it up"? The condition had been deteriorating for some time with the pilots increasingly pulling up to compensate for the descending air currents. The last updraft, to which the pilots didn't react correctly either, was just the last straw that broke the camel's neck.Originally posted by Evan View Post
But for me the most important part was that the operator as a whole was operating with a very poor safety culture. In that context, pilots operate with a very poor safety culture no matter if they are ex-military or not. Because pilots that want to keep high standards when flying for an operator with a poor safety culture either end up lowering their standards or resign or are fired.
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Yes.Originally posted by Evan View Post
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With that I agree, and it speaks as much about the operator as it does about the pilots (who, hint, always have to be pilots that are compatible with the operator).Originally posted by Evan View Post
Especially since that was the "normal" way for them to operate.
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Ok, I concede it is probably better to die instantly by slamming into a granite-faced alpine mountain than to experience the terror of diving into a valley. If that's what you mean. Kind of a Hobson's choice though.Originally posted by Gabriel View PostComment
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No. In certain circumstances, a controlled crash into a mountainside can be survivable. The prospect is not good, of course, but the chances are better than a spin and a vertical crash at the bottom.Originally posted by Evan View Post
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