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Lion Air 737-Max missing, presumed down in the sea near CGK (Jakarta)

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  • Lion Air 737-Max missing, presumed down in the sea near CGK (Jakarta)

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/li...29-p50cmu.html

    ADS-B looks like a sudden, steep dive. Doubtful outlook for survivors.

  • #2
    Was just coming here to post this. Doesn't sound optimistic that anyone survived.

    And losing a 737-8 MAX so early into its introduction will undoubtedly lead to speculation of a design flaw.

    Comment


    • #3
      Seems most people are saying it is PK-LQP, 3 months old.

      https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9050423

      Bloomberg says 185 people on board.

      Comment


      • #4
        https://www.flightradar24.com/data/a...k-lqp#1e5ff318

        Very sad news.

        Comment


        • #5
          sure looks like they were chasing a valid airspeed
          https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...310Z/WIII/WIKK
          moving quickly in air

          Comment


          • #6
            Judging from the few images of the debris available currently, the largest recovered fragment appears to be an emergency escape slide.
            https://twitter.com/GerryS/status/1056743506113249280
            https://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...fcc3621c5493ce

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            • #7
              Reportedly, called ATC to inform technical problems and request return back to the airport.

              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

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              • #8
                really think news outlets should NOT use Lion 904 pictures of it floating mostly intact in the water, giving relatives false hope, this plane completely disintegrated
                moving quickly in air

                Comment


                • #9
                  tech log comment from preceding flight: Airspeed unreliable and alt disagree shown after take off
                  moving quickly in air

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by orangehuggy View Post
                    tech log comment from preceding flight: Airspeed unreliable and alt disagree shown after take off
                    Clouds scattered to broken at 2000 to 2200 ft, visibility 5 miles, wind almost non-existent, daylight...

                    It would be really disappointing if they lost it to unreliable sped or altitude.

                    --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                    --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                      It would be really disappointing if they lost it to unreliable sped or altitude.
                      It would be really unacceptable if pilots still can't handle this type of failure.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by orangehuggy View Post
                        sure looks like they were chasing a valid airspeed
                        https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...310Z/WIII/WIKK
                        Disconcur

                        Heading and altitude are also all over the place.

                        The plane "sort of" seems "totally" out of control.

                        Edit- I retract this based on the radio call: [If there was no radio broadcast, I parlour speculate something nefarious.]

                        How do you make a 737 go into alternate law / what's it doing now? [Edit, maybe you turn off the autopilot and have folks who haven't hand flown in true IMC on little tiny backup gauges].
                        Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                          How do you make a 737 go into alternate law / what's it doing now? [Edit, maybe you turn off the autopilot and have folks who haven't hand flown in true IMC on little tiny backup gauges].
                          So many ways... Other than the obvious rudder hard-over (to which the 737 MAX should not be susceptible), you have hydraulic failures, engine failures, stalls (why is it not going up if I have been pulling up all the time) and a vast list of etc. Now you mention IMC, but it looks like it was quite VMC, I mean, legal for VFR.

                          --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                          --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
                            So many ways...
                            BUT, there's so many backups? Look it's all on the table (including meteor strikes), but so strange for it to be "out of control". (Out of control = relative, not much stable flight there- albeit nothing too awfully wild until the end).

                            And now you've taken spatial disorientation out of the equation.

                            Yes, wait for a formal report.
                            Les règles de l'aviation de base découragent de longues périodes de dur tirer vers le haut.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 3WE View Post
                              BUT, there's so many backups? Look it's all on the table (including meteor strikes), but so strange for it to be "out of control". (Out of control = relative, not much stable flight there- albeit nothing too awfully wild until the end).

                              And now you've taken spatial disorientation out of the equation.
                              I agree, it also called my attention the instability of the speed and altitude, followed by what seems to be a total loss of control. Obviously the problems to control the plane started way before the total loss of control. The fact that they seem to have been in VMC daylight makes it even stranger. Another strange thing is that apparently they called ATC with the return request just a couple of minutes after take off but then kept flying away 8 more minutes.

                              I don't want to wait for the final report. We will probably have good (and bad) information coming since we have the previous crew that wrote the report, witnesses of the crash in a boat, the wreckage sie easily accessible, and the black boxes have already been located.

                              --- Judge what is said by the merits of what is said, not by the credentials of who said it. ---
                              --- Defend what you say with arguments, not by imposing your credentials ---

                              Comment

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