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Lion Air 737-Max missing, presumed down in the sea near CGK (Jakarta)
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if this turns out to be true, forget about lawsuits. people should be charged criminally. fat chance of that happening though.
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There has been a lot of talk about this. Some have suggested Boeing needed the new system on the MAX to make it behave the same way as the NG, despite the heavier engines and altered center of gravity. This was needed for certification. But now they are saying Boeing did not clearly describe the changed behavior from the new system - possibly to keep commonality with the NG and avoid any additional training that would have been required? It is speculation, but that's one reason forums exist.
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From PPRUNE.ORG
From the extremely brief description of the MCAS, we can possibly conclude:
JT 610 retracted flaps to the clean configuration (MCAS becomes active)
Low mach number, therefore maximum rate of horizontal stabilizer of 0.27 degrees per second, and a forward deflection to the limit with a spurious AoA input.
And LOTS of talk of none of this being in the 'manual'
This is looking like a whole lotta lawsuit for Boeing
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostI don't believe that. The pilot can always overpower the trim wheel.
However, now the NY times is reporting on this...
Originally posted by NY Times“We’ve just been informed that there’s an entire new system on the Max,” said Capt. Dennis Tajer, spokesman for the Allied Pilots Association, the union for pilots at American Airlines, and a 737 pilot.
He said he was referring to what is known on the new version of the plane as the M.C.A.S., or maneuver characteristics augmentation system. The previous system, and the one in the standard manual, goes by a different shorthand, E.F.S., for elevator feel shift.Originally posted by NY TimesThe pilots’ union for American Airlines, which also flies the Max 8, said Tuesday that the emergency system in question had not been included by Boeing in the standard operating manual. In addition, the flight checklist — which contains information for manually overriding the emergency system — was incorrect, the union said.
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Originally posted by Evan View PostThe WSJ has published a claim that the 737MAX has new stall protection features that may make it impossible for pilots to overcome an erroneous pitch down command.
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Originally posted by ATLcrew View PostRemind me how long the Nightmareliner sat on the ground over a battery.
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Originally posted by Evan View PostSo, a significant delay of over 4,500 deliveries (and the potential cancellations of those orders) and the thusly expanded time to profitability and loss of public confidence on that airframe wouldn't cause a fatal shareholder panic in the age of shareholder panic. That's reassuring.
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Originally posted by ATLcrew View PostOh...Evan, it would take a lot more than that to cause "curtains" for Boeing, trust me.
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Originally posted by Evan View PostIf it does turn out that Boeing developed an "airplane-has-ultimate-authority" stall protection system without air data redundancy, the entire 737MAX fleet will have to be immediately grounded and the system redesigned and recertified. That outcome could be curtains for Boeing.
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The WSJ has published a claim that the 737MAX has new stall protection features that may make it impossible for pilots to overcome an erroneous pitch down command.
Originally posted by CNNCiting "safety experts involved in the investigation, as well as midlevel FAA officials and airline pilots," the Journal reported Monday that the automated stall-prevention system on Boeing 737 MAX 8 and MAX 9 models -- intended to help cockpit crews avoid mistakenly raising a plane's nose dangerously high -- "under unusual conditions can push it down unexpectedly and so strongly that flight crews can't pull it back up."
The very idea goes against Boeing's "pilot-has-ultimate-authority" philosophy. If it does turn out that Boeing developed an "airplane-has-ultimate-authority" stall protection system without air data redundancy, the entire 737MAX fleet will have to be immediately grounded and the system redesigned and recertified. That outcome could be curtains for Boeing.
However, I find it impossible to believe the FAA would certify such a system in the first place, let alone that Boeing would be so foolish as to design one.
So I'm highly inclined to file this report under "poor fact checking".
On the other hand, Boeing DID design an autopilot for the NG that would occassionally--due to an undetected weakness in the logic--continue to operate without redundancy when one RA was faulty and this led to the fatal crash of Turkish 1951. That system was quietly replaced in 2003 with a reliable alternative and the press never got wind of it.
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Originally posted by ATLcrew View PostNot only that, but I have it on good authority that the malfunction in question is even a memory item on at least one type. Remember, though, "standard basics" are not welcome 'round these parts, only strict, highly type-specific procedures are.
Better to pay attention in type-specific class, I'm guessing, and practice what you've learned. Cuz when the ground starts coming up and you've got 5...4...3...2...1...
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostIsn't runaway trim part of the very basic standard curriculum of what is done in the sim as part of any type rating?
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