Originally posted by Gabriel
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Lion Air 737-Max missing, presumed down in the sea near CGK (Jakarta)
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostThank you. I would say that a sudden change from about +2500 fpm to about -3500 fpm in about 20 seconds (that's -6000 fpm per second or -100 fps or an acceleration -3.1g which corresponds to a load factor of -2.1) would be a sudden, very likely uncompounded, fall. And since it happens 3.5 minutes after lift off with the plane barely above 5000 ft, I would say that this qualifies as shortly after take-off too.
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The K in 300k is kilometres.Once you have been bitten by the gliding bug, the challenge is to fly cross country to a pre- determined turning point. In the case of 300k, the point will be at 150k and then to return to base.Typically,on a good day when thermals are strong, with a cloudbase of 4/5000ft you would hope to accomplish the task in less than 5 hours. I hope that this makes things clearer.
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Originally posted by Evan View PostYou have mentioned, I think, that on a conventional aircraft with control feedback, you can fly by letting the aircraft speak to you, by feel, as opposed to following UAS pitch/power procedure and QRH values.
On the other hand, forget STS. What happens when you are without reliable airspeeds and you decide to depart level pitch/power flight, to enter a turn back to base, when you are flying 20kts slower than you think?
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Originally posted by BoeingBobby View Post"5000+ hours) instructor rating and more 300k+ cross country" Now that is impressive! A touch unbelievable too!!
(let me bet it's a typo and the 300k should be 300)
The 5000 hours is not unheard of for GA instructors. If you instruct 4 hours per day 150 days a year you make it in 8 years. Let me guess the guy is slightly more than 30 y/o.
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"5000+ hours) instructor rating and more 300k+ cross country" Now that is impressive! A touch unbelievable too!!
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I hesitated before sticking my neck out and posting. My flying experience is mainly in gliders ( 5000+ hours) instructor rating and more 300k+ cross country flights than I can count.I have seen many young men use their gliding experience as a stepping stone to a career in civil or military aviation.In many cases they have reported positive feedback from their professional instructors in terms of their flying skills and especially in terms of their sensitivity to and to the control of the the attitude of the aircraft. In this accident ( ok not proved yet) and in others,for example AF447, when systems fail the pilots involved seem unable to call upon the basic skill of establishing and maintaining their aircraft in a stable attitude giving themselves time to sort out the systems problem.
I acknowledge freely that the " systems" and the pilots mastery of them have contributed enormously to today's remarkable standards of flight safety. I suppose that I am asking, in the extremely rare event of the systems failing, if the training equips the pilots to revert to basic principles.
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Originally posted by Black Ram View Post
There were testimony from different passengers saying that the plane suddenly started to fall out of the sky and that they thought that was the end and all these typical comments that normally don't mean much in the sense of reliable data for an investigation, but some times it does if it is consistent with other hard data.
One could say that perhaps this was the result not of a real fall but of a false altitude and vertical speed indication caused by unreliable air data, but the way the GROUNDspeed varies during the incident makes me think this was not the case.
If the plane really experimented an acceleration anywhere close to that, it should have been grounded for a through inspection since it exceeds the required design limit load by quite a bit.
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Originally posted by Evan View PostWhat happens when you are without reliable airspeeds and you decide to depart level pitch/power flight, to enter a turn back to base, when you are flying 20kts slower than you think?
Electrons shoot through the windows at near-light-speed hitting carbon-based analysis systems which are reasonably good at determining attitude.
Laws of physics, including FAMILIAR power, attitude and performance settings remain unchanged.
AOA-based stall warning systems remain functional.
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Originally posted by Gabriel View PostI don't remember. The wording was not "uncommanded" but sudden, there are reports in avherald about the problems they had with the airspeed and altitude data, the STS, and the control feel system. The FDR that contains 1800 (!!!!) parameters for the last several flights will probably tell.
STS basically uses the autopilot servo on the (antiquated and overly-complex) elevator to add a small bit of opposing trim force, to compensate for things like underslung thrust at high power, light weight and aft CoG. It was needed to certify the NG, to meet the FAR requirement for minimum trim force. It's not HAL9000.
If STS were "operating in the wrong direction", it would be subtracting required trim force. You have mentioned, I think, that on a conventional aircraft with control feedback, you can fly by letting the aircraft speak to you, by feel, as opposed to following UAS pitch/power procedure and QRH values. Perhaps this crew also felt that way. Perhaps they also failed to realize that there are stealth factors on modern (and awkwardly modernized) jets that the engineers took into consideration when they wrote those procedures, and thus they should always be adhered to for reasons you might not be aware of...
On the other hand, forget STS. What happens when you are without reliable airspeeds and you decide to depart level pitch/power flight, to enter a turn back to base, when you are flying 20kts slower than you think?
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Originally posted by Evan View PostWhere is that coming from?
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...n-737-max-jets
All of a sudden we are talking about faulty AoA measurements?
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Originally posted by Evan View PostWhere is that coming from?
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