Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Air Astana serious control problems, request ditching, land safely

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • elaw
    replied
    In former Soviet republics, you do not fly airplane: airplane flies you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Originally posted by ATLcrew View Post
    When you're flying for Make Benefit The Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan, nothing can harm you. (you may or may not get the reference).
    His wife was killed by a bear, so not sure whether the "nothing can harm you" is a fair proclamation (although, admittedly, she was not flying).

    Leave a comment:


  • ATLcrew
    replied
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post

    I still don't understand how they survived. And I am not talking about the several times they lost control that they suffered when they were already at altitude but how they didn't just crash right after lift-off.

    Whatever they had for breakfast, I want some. It gave them either extreme brilliancy or extreme luck (or both).
    When you're flying for Make Benefit The Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan, nothing can harm you. (you may or may not get the reference).

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Preliminary report out.

    http://www.gpiaa.gov.pt/wwwbase/wwwi...te=WebSiteMenu

    Nothing super surprising. Maintenance screwed up by mis-routing the aileron cables (helped by instructions that were not super clear) and then let the issue slip through several layers of Swiss cheese that should have detected it. Finally the flight crew didn't detect it either in the pre-flight checks although it is not very clear how detectable it was.

    I still don't understand how they survived. And I am not talking about the several times they lost control that they suffered when they were already at altitude but how they didn't just crash right after lift-off.

    Whatever they had for breakfast, I want some. It gave them either extreme brilliancy or extreme luck (or both).

    Leave a comment:


  • 3WE
    replied
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    If they didn't do it (as apparently the didn't), that unforgivable and inexcusable. (and you know what this little dot means).
    Point taken BUT the little dot is premature.

    It has happened before; it will probably happen again.

    Ask ITS...remember the Gulfstream? which you said didn’t need control locks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    But you said:


    So are the spoilerons a subset within the roll spoilers (which is the name I've always seen) or what?
    I would put 'spoilerons' in the subset of spoilers that deploy in place of ailerons, while the larger set 'roll spoilers' are all spoilers that deploy to either augment ailerons or in place of them.

    But maybe they are all considered spoilerons.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    I am somewhere in the middle, or in both sides at the same time:

    - Yes, pilots need to know about the MCAS. If the trim wheel starts to crank by itself, the pilots should be left to wonder "what it is doing now" because we did not tell them about this little detail.
    - Trim runaway can happen for a number of reasons. MCAS activate by a wrong AOA indication is only one of them. When there is a trim runaway, whatever the reason, pilot are expected to recognize it and apply the EXISTING procedures that are THE SAME in the MAX than in the NG. Fly the plane first, make the diagnostic later. Apparently doing the trim runaway procedure would have worked ok in this case. They could have used the trim switch in the yoke to temporarily stop the trim motion and apply corrective trim as needed, then they could and should have used the trim cutout switches to turn off the trim motor, and even they could have grabbed the trim wheel to make it stop and turn it manually in the direction they needed. They did not need to know about the MCAS to do any of that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan View Post
    [Spoilerons are] Asymmetrical spoilers used for roll control.
    But you said:

    I think the roll spoilers are more effective at high speeds. The spoilerons in particular.
    So are the spoilerons a subset within the roll spoilers (which is the name I've always seen) or what?

    Leave a comment:


  • Gabriel
    replied
    Originally posted by 3WE View Post
    I think I hear you.

    My comment is simply that they blew it. If I was supposed to check for correct controls, that depiction is wrong AND hopefully I would not be a shithead and not notice.

    But instead of the dude staring at the wrong control indications and not registering, my money is that they blew it off or the guy didn’t really look... and that the habit of blowing through “free only” might have fueled his sloppiness.
    If you there is one single time where you better check that the controls are free AND CORRECT, it is after a major maintenance. If they didn't do it (as apparently the didn't), that unforgivable and inexcusable. (and you know what this little dot means).

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    Originally posted by TeeVee View Post
    guess we can add untied to the list of airlines you won't fly, eh?
    They were already on my avoid-at-all-costs-list. But so is Newark.

    See: The United Debarcle

    https://forums.jetphotos.com/showthr...nited-debarcle

    Leave a comment:


  • TeeVee
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan View Post
    “I don’t need to know how it works."

    We're all doomed.
    guess we can add untied to the list of airlines you won't fly, eh?

    i actually agree with your sarcasm. perhaps this guy is gunning for a job at boeing...

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    “I don’t need to know how it works."

    We're all doomed.

    Leave a comment:


  • 3WE
    replied
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    I think I am not making myself clear,, so here it goes again, for the third time, with emphasis added
    I think I hear you.

    My comment is simply that they blew it. If I was supposed to check for correct controls, that depiction is wrong AND hopefully I would not be a shithead and not notice.

    But instead of the dude staring at the wrong control indications and not registering, my money is that they blew it off or the guy didn’t really look... and that the habit of blowing through “free only” might have fueled his sloppiness.

    Leave a comment:


  • BoeingBobby
    replied
    https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ion-air-crash/

    Leave a comment:


  • ATLcrew
    replied
    Originally posted by Gabriel View Post
    What? I've heard of flaperons, elevons, rudderons, rudderators and even elerudderons. But spoilerons? It's a first.
    I'm almost shocked.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X